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3ph Forklift Battery Charger wiring Question

doug925

Titanium
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Location
Houston
Hi all.

Quick (& stupid) question.
Preface: 36V, 3ph, 208/240/440 forklift battery charger

Does the battery charger ~care~ what "input terminal" the HOT (208V) leg input wire goes to? -> L1, L2, or L3?

Inside the charger, I have wired the main transformers and the control transformer for 240V, which is my input voltage.

I have the correct A breaker in place, and the "HOT" leg going to L2.

All I have to do is flip the breaker to on. But before I do, I wanted to make sure nothing will go POP! or ZZZZtttt!

(I am awaiting a call from Southland Battery right now, but thought I'd ask here too.)

Thanks,

Doug.
 
All three legs of 3 phase are hot. One may be grounded as they are in the St. Louis area, but the voltage is the same between all legs. You obviously are confused about the nature of 3 phase power. Get the factory on the line and have them explain before you do anything.

Bill
 
9100,

I know that the voltage measured between any 2 of the three will give the same (and in my case 240V) voltage.
However, there IS a hot leg. :D
ONE of the three lines measured to ground/neutral (however you want to say it) will measure 210V while the other two will only measure 110.
Again, this IS the "hot Leg"
:cheers:
As it turns out, NO, it does not matter to the charger which of the three legs goes where.
I know motors, but chargers are a bit foreign to me.

Thanks anyways,

Doug.
 
Doug, what you have is a delta service where-in three phase is obtained with two transformers rather than three. Years ago this was very common due to the cost savings to the power company.
You are absolutely right to check before wiring because many things that are marked 3 ph 240 have control components in them that are wired 120v.
Changing your control transformer's voltage taps was smart but checking with the manufacturer would be advised or have the unit checked by an electrician with control training. Sounds like you already did one or both.
Good job, knn
 
Whatever you have there, it is not standard 3 phase power. An open delta transformer reads the same as a three winding transformer if it is done right. You can't tell the difference looking at the voltages. 3 phase normally comes in two connections, either with a center common such as 120/208, where leg to leg reads 208 V in each case and leg to common reads 120 V from each leg, or what we have around here, the B phase grounded and the other two read 240 to ground and 240 between the A and C legs. If you have three 240 V phases that are the proper 120 degrees apart, you cannot have the voltages you cite to common. The math simply doesn't work. A balanced 240 V 3 phase line reads 138.56 V from all legs to common.

BTW, Variacs, Powerstats, or whatever you want to call variable transformers, are frequently two section, connected in open delta. They often work better than three section ones because they don't have problems with some sorts of uneven loading.

Bill
 
9100, I probably didn't communicate proprely which transformer(s) I was speaking of. I was speaking of the power company's transformers on the pole.
I will post a link to a power company PDF showing their connections. Page 5 shows the "open" connections. Note that phase 3 to neutral reads 208v. In the real world this is usually closer to 197v.
It is widely refered to as the "high leg" even in the NEC (National Electrical Code) or sometimes as the "wild leg" (trade slang).
This is not theory or opinion. With 34 years in the electrical trade I assure you this is real.

knn

Link = http://www.jea.com/about/pub/downloads/contractor/OH-2-Transformers.pdf

P.S. I tried to upload the link but was told it was too large. Just copy and paste into your browser.
 
9100, I probably didn't communicate proprely which transformer(s) I was speaking of. I was speaking of the power company's transformers on the pole.
I will post a link to a power company PDF showing their connections. Page 5 shows the "open" connections. Note that phase 3 to neutral reads 208v. In the real world this is usually closer to 197v.
It is widely refered to as the "high leg" even in the NEC (National Electrical Code) or sometimes as the "wild leg" (trade slang).
This is not theory or opinion. With 34 years in the electrical trade I assure you this is real.

knn

Link = http://www.jea.com/about/pub/downloads/contractor/OH-2-Transformers.pdf

P.S. I tried to upload the link but was told it was too large. Just copy and paste into your browser.

I have been at this a while, too. My first paycheck was from a summer job in 1951 at the the P. E. Chapman Electrical Works. I started working full time a few years later and have done a lot of things, especially since becoming an independent, taking whatever came along. In all that time, the only reference to a "wild phase" was from a steam engine mechanic at the Midwest Old Thresher's Reunion in Mount Pleasant, Iowa. He asked about connecting something to the wild phase coming into their shop. I asked for an explanation, but what I got was very nebulous. He was a machinist/mechanic, not an electrician. That is the only time I had heard the term, probably because I have mainly worked in industry where they had larger services. Personally, I think calling it a wild phase is misleading because it is simply elevated above the others by grounding the center of the winding for the other two phases. In an application like a farm that has a house using single phase power and a few three phase motors in farm equipment, it makes sense because if three phase feeders are present, the power company only has to hang another single phase transformer and run an extra wire. Around here, when they want to save money, they go to a 120/208 service, which is fine for someone who is going to buy all new equipment that will run on 208, but I have worked in one shop that had it and consulted for another. Both had a lot of 240 V equipment collected over the years and everything had to run on the reduced voltage or have a transformer.

When I found the term that Google wanted, which is "high leg delta", I got a lot of information about it. It would be a much better solution for small shops or home machinists than phase converters that are either expensive of don't work very well. I had a static converter on my first mill at home and a commercial rotary when I moved into the shop. Neither was more than barely adequate. I finally badgered the power company into giving me a proper 240 V 3 phase line.

I called Ameren, which supplies power around here and wound up talking to an Illinois engineer instead of one for the Missouri side of the Mississippi, but I was only asking general questions, anyway. The service may be available. It depends on the particular power company, the availability of 3 phase feeders and the probable use. It would be worth an inquiry.

I make transformers and other electrical equipment and my travels have taken me from underground in a coal mine to wiring jet planes, so naturally I wondered how I missed this application. I have shelves full of books on transformers and related subjects. I went through the books I use as references for them and found all sorts of exotic connections like Scott, broken star, 6, 9 and 12 phase conversions, which I knew about, but not a word about high leg delta.

Oh well, maybe the mental activity will delay the onset of Altzheimer's.

Bill
 








 
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