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Author Topic:   Cut knurling
daryl bane
Member

Posts: 240
From: dallas
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 04-20-2003 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for daryl bane   Click Here to Email daryl bane     Edit/Delete Message
I recently acquired a Quick cut-type knurling
tool. I didn't get any instructions with it.
I started experimenting and got some OK results, but I feel alittle more info would
really get excellent knurls.

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CCWKen
Member

Posts: 218
From: Lytle, TX USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 04-21-2003 09:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CCWKen   Click Here to Email CCWKen     Edit/Delete Message
I've never known any of the accessory tools to come with instructions. Knurling is not only an art form but also a mathmatical challenge. You must use a knurl (pitch) based on the size (diameter) of your stock.
I printed up an Excel Worksheet and keep it in the shop. It shows diameters from .200 to 2.500 , by .010, and the best knurl set (Fine, Medium, Course) to use with that diameter stock. Sure makes the jobs easier.
Remember, it's like cutting threads except that the metal is being displaced, not removed. Use a lube; WD-40 works.

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Doug
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Posts: 324
From:
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 04-22-2003 12:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Doug   Click Here to Email Doug     Edit/Delete Message
CCWKen,

I know what you mean about the diameter business, but since I started using a modified B&S scissor knurl tool off a screw machine I haven't had any tracking problems.

Mostly I knurl in the CNC. For most materials I run around 800rpm, use a very fast feed and get the knurl off the part as fast as the machine will rapid. I run the knurls dry, with a shot of coolant prior to engaging the workpiece to lubricate the roll pins. Just finished a run of 316 SS parts, 3/8 diameter stock knurled 1.5" on the end, 3 seconds cycle time for a coarse knurl. I don't see how anything other than an opposed scissor knurler could do this job.

The tool Daryl is asking about is a cut knurler, it actually cuts instead of displacing material. I have two of those type and have never been satisfied with the results. The cutting is not an efficient process so the knurl pattern does not have the crisp quality of formed knurls in my experience.

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John Stevenson
Member

Posts: 197
From: Nottingham, England
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-22-2003 05:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for John Stevenson   Click Here to Email John Stevenson     Edit/Delete Message
I feel that this diameter business is well over stated. Knurling is mainly decorative or non critical practical use i.e. hand grip so the diameter isn't usually critical.
I do agree that when you start off you can get a knurl that doesn't match up as regards pitch and diameter but lets look at the practicalities of this.

Take a 1" diameter bar, it has a circumference of 1 x Pi = 3.142"
Now take a knurl wheel with a pitch of say 40 thou 3.142 / 0.040 = 78.55 tpi
So yes this wont match up. But now reverse the maths and find the diameter of a bar with a 40 thou circumference which is circumference / Pi - 3.142 / 0.04 = 0.013"

So on our 1" bar we know that every 6 thou of infeed will create one less tpi, remember we are working on diameter so it's halved. So when you get an out of pitch knurl you can only be 6 odd thou away from a perfect knurl at the most.
From the original calculation of 78.55 it's obvious that an infeed of only 3 thou will match up.

The moral behind all this complicated and unwanted maths is
JUST WIND THE BLOODY THING IN TO GET A GOOD KNURL.
You can't just kiss the surface anyway so you have to infeed. This proves a very small difference of infeed WILL produce the correct knurl WITHOUT having to fath around with tables and skimming surfaces.

John S.

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daryl bane
Member

Posts: 240
From: dallas
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 04-22-2003 09:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for daryl bane   Click Here to Email daryl bane     Edit/Delete Message
Many thanks all for the info. There were a
number of European sites as well as Dorian,
that had some good info. My second round
of experiments were quite successful, with
gorgeous results. And in one pass. Now I
know why these tools are so expensive!
Thanks again.

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Mark McGrath
Member

Posts: 88
From: Scotland
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 04-22-2003 04:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark McGrath   Click Here to Email Mark McGrath     Edit/Delete Message
Quick cut knurling tools do come with instructions.The tools are made by Miller,Innsbruck and I`m sure they have a website somewhere.
We produce thousands of parts a week with a straight coarse knurl and apart from the M10 hole up the middle the knurl is the only dimension with a +/- 0.002" tolerance on it.
We don`t use cut knurls on this,just J&S £5 wheels in Herbert scissor type heads,feed on from the end up 20mm and back,takes six or seven seconds and brings the diameter up about 0.016".
I have the instructions for seeting Quick knurling tools if anyone is stuck.
Regards,Mark

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ian-g
Junior Member

Posts: 1
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 04-23-2003 04:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ian-g   Click Here to Email ian-g     Edit/Delete Message
Thank you John.
At last some sanity and practicality on this topic of knurling.
I have always been amused by the lengths that some home shop machinists go to to split that last hair.
While I don't want to take away from those that choose, or need to, to work to minute tolerances I would guess that 95% at least of what we do doesn't need to be within 10 thou, let alone within one ten thousandth.
We never used to worry about the diameter of knurling in production. I don't recall ever seeing a drawing that toleranced a knurled surface, other than by the general machining tolerance which was usually plus or minus 0.010" or even 0.025".

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Doug
Member

Posts: 324
From:
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 04-23-2003 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Doug   Click Here to Email Doug     Edit/Delete Message
ian-g,

Of late I have had a few production jobs where the knurled surfaces were specified to close tolerances. Not a problem, though.

I set up the knurling head and run a few tests to check the knurled diameter. Then adjust the blank diameter to give slightly over the print diameter on the knurl. Then run over the knurl with a positive rake turning tool to bring it to exact size. This way you can create knurls within a few tenths on diameter.

I believe the reason home-shoppers fuss over the knurling process so much is they aren't using the correct knurling tools. I mean, have you ever tried to make a decent knurl on a light duty machine using one of those side infeed knurl heads that need umpteen passes to come to depth?

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