Brown & Sharpe #5 Surface Grinder questions

We currently have an Elliott 8-20 Surface grinder (60's era English iron). It's needed alot of work but has been nice to use. 2 issues I have with it is that parts and support are totally non-existent in the states, and the hydraulic system is complicated and difficult to service. the 8" x 20" size is nice but there are times where 20" just isn't enough. So, working on a cheap-scate budget...

I'm looking at an old Brown & Sharpe #5. They're antiques, but doesn't Bourne and Koch still support them? Even if it's just the small things, that's better than the Elliott. And having some support, even if it's just PM'ers who have run like machines, is good. If I understand correctly the #5 is an 8" x 24" which would help. The Elliott has 18" of wheel height vs. the 12" on the #5, so that would be a trade-off, but I think I've only run it up that high once in the last decade.

How equipped is the cross travel/traverse on the #5? The Elliott is fully hydraulic and you have 2 options of conventional "stepping" traverse, or continuous traverse produces a random cross-hatch pattern, which I really like. Looking at literature on the #5, it sounds like it has a continuous traverse but it's only for dressing the wheel and the longitudinal travel doesn't work with it engaged?

I'm all for bringing home another worn out bit of old iron to restore. That part is no issue to me. I just want to be sure I'm not trading one feature for another.

For reference, here's a shot of the Elliott 8-20


And this is a brochure I found online for the Brown & Sharpe #5
http://www.sterlingmachinery.com/media/brochures1/file/brown-&-sharpe-no.-5-surface-grinder-brochure.pdf

Call B&K and give them the serial. They were made between '35 and '61

I'd be amazed if anything was available that was anywhere near affordable

When we got the Elliott, it was dead in the back of a shop. We replaced the hoses, x axis cylinder rod (made in house) and did some minor cleanup to the machine and had it running. Also replaced some missing sheet metal covers. The hydraulic rams still leak out the ends on occasion and the y axis ram has a slight bend from a past crash and will need to be replaced. Getting to it involves almost the entire disassembly of the saddle. Not sure if the #5 is the same but the on the Elliott to work on the valves and controls you have to disconnect the rams, remove the table, hoist the saddle up part way up, disconnect the hoses, then flip the whole thing over on a skid...

Looking at the manuals for the #5, it looks to be just as complex as the Elliott, but at least there are better drawings. I'm fortunate to have manuals for the Elliott but they're not very in-depth and the diagrams are more "theory" than actual drawing.

Anyone have any thoughts comparing the two machines? I'm still musing this over.

If it's of any constellation, I have a B & S 612 Valuemaster SG built in the 1980's. B & C pretty much do not stock any parts for these dinosaurs other than maybe a cross feed screw or feed nut. Their pricing is like buying a new Cadillac! Of course, mine is hand crank not hydraulic. Other than that, it is a nice sound SG for the money.

What about Gallmeyer & Livingston? Same questions as far as support and if the cross travel has continuous feed? It looks like Weller machinery is supporting them.

I see they had a model in the 24" range and in the 36" range. 36" would open up alot more utility, provided I can squeeze it into the shop.

This question/thread is still up in the air.

It seems like we've been doing more grinding lately and the Elliot has a manual down-feed meaning that the operator has to be on top of the job. It would be a huge help to have auto-down feed, in addition to a more reliable machine so that they can step away for longer than a minute. Most of the jobs are very simple and we don't get paid much for them. Things like resurfacing poorly hand ground straight edge blades. We can't just "no-quote" it as they're part of our nitch industry.

SO

I'm looking at any and all used surface grinders with 20-24" table travel, hydraulics in both axis, conventional and continuous cross-feed, AND auto down feed. An over the wheel dresser would be super helpful too. My pride would be most satisfied with old American iron especially if it's something I'll be making my own parts for. So I'd prefer something with more mechanics, less hydraulics, and less electronics, so I'm not stuck with a dead machine when an obsolete control board dies (although, also looking at used CNC surface grinders), but even if it's an old Japanese machine or something, I'm mainly trying to get something that has more support/information out there than the Elliot so I can service it with more than my own wits.

Budget is preferably less than $8000. A project is fine as long as it's priced accordingly. Any leads? Anything to stay away from? It looks like B&S, Norton, Okamoto, and Thompson would all fit the ticket, but the listings don't always note all the features, so what models of 12x24 Thompson (for example) had auto downfeed?

It doesn't seem like anything used is available in the greater Houston area, so shipping will be needed.

Back in post #2, you posted a link of a brochure. That just solved a minor mystery for me !

I just posted in Antique this week, that I had a brochure, that I didn't know where I got it. Seeing this thread again, I checked your link, and I have it bookmarked ! But that link is a dead end now. If anyone needs it, I downloaded that brochure and have it on PDF. What I posted this week:
Brown & Sharpe No 5 Surface Grinder

The B & S No 5 does not auto down feed. But I there was a separate optional attachment that could that bought to do that. And its on page 8 of that brochure !



PM me with email address if you need that pdf.

texasgunsmith said:

Back in post #2, you posted a link of a brochure. That just solved a minor mystery for me !

I just posted in Antique this week, that I had a brochure, that I didn't know where I got it. Seeing this thread again, I checked your link, and I have it bookmarked ! But that link is a dead end now. If anyone needs it, I downloaded that brochure and have it on PDF. What I posted this week:
Brown & Sharpe No 5 Surface Grinder

The B & S No 5 does not auto down feed. But I there was a separate optional attachment that could that bought to do that. And its on page 8 of that brochure !

View attachment 341826

PM me with email address if you need that pdf.

Click to expand...

Thanks! if I end up with a #5, I'll let you know. That's a complex looking down-feed mechanism, but to be honest I'd rather troubleshoot something like that than deal with circuit boards.