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Thread: Cinci #2 wheelhead bearings
01-28-2010, 08:03 PM #1
Cinci #2 wheelhead bearings
What bearings does the Cici #2 TC grinder take???
The parts manual shows three bearings but gives no numbers other then cinci numbers...
01-29-2010, 02:54 PM #2
Try getting hold of a cross reference book from a bearing distributor that might be helpful or they may be able to do that for you.
02-04-2010, 09:03 AM #3
First off you need to know that the Cinc bearing numbers only mean something to the OEM, when they have the serial number of your machine. I've had a number of their spindles apart and they have their differences.
I cannot recall how many years the #2 has been made, but think 1930's forward. Some in the US, some I believe in France and the latter years in Taiwan.
Best suggestion, open the spindle. The most common is a pair of angular contact ABEC-9 ball bearings in DUM configuration on the left side and a self aligning spherical on the right side, floating in the housing.
Lube up till the 1960's was filtered Andok C and later years Kubler filtered grease............. unless you have a Filamatic, which of course is an oil lube.
02-04-2010, 03:28 PM #4
Thanks, I have opened the spindle but the originals have been replaced with 4 deep groove plain ball bearings, they are not even precision grade.. So I am unsure of what was in there originally..
Also this is not a genuine cinci but a locally made clone (from WW2 era), but I assume they would have cloned the machine accurately including the bearings used..
02-04-2010, 11:09 PM #5
Sorry RC I'm not offering any help. Everything I've read tells me to keep my passion fingers away from spindle bearings which are sealed for life.
I thought you had a genuine cincinnati tool & cutter grinder? Maybe the clone you refer to is a McPherson machine wearing the Macson name? A friend (former acquaintance) acquired two Macsons with heaps of tooling and blunt cutters to practice on from a TAFE auction.
Do you know where in OZ that I might be able to buy a bellows dust cover for the column of my old Jones and Shipman? I know they are still available from the manufacturer as a spare part but shipping costs from England is a deterant.
02-05-2010, 12:23 AM #6
LOL Damien, sometimes my fingers are like that...
Dunno about your dust covers.. Have you considered making one up out of canvas??
My Macson never came with one originally as it is so old but the previous owner who did a bit of restorative work to it fitted a new cinci one.. I read somewhere they are US$200 a pop new..
You can see some my attempts at sharpening here http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=39522
02-05-2010, 08:27 AM #7
OK, Well then it's time to sit down with a bearing book and look up the correct bearings. You will be looking for bearings that are the same physical size as what you have, just different configuration.
As previously indicated, there is a restrained side and a floating side on the original Cinc #2. The fixed side has 2 angular contact ABEC-9 ball bearing units as a DUM pair. The floating side a double row self align.
These are off the shelf, though not innexpensive SKF or Fafner bearings.
RC, I looked at your photos, from the looks your grinder is an exact copy of 1940's Cinc #2. Not unsual they were made under contract off shore.... at one time Cinc was a HUGE company with worldwide distribution and manufacturing.
02-05-2010, 03:12 PM #8
Ok Thanks, The bore is 62mm and the shaft 25mm
This means the angular contact would be 2X 7305 placed back to back... And the double row sperical ball would be a 2305.
02-05-2010, 04:54 PM #9
Make sure the duplexed pair are orderd as a matched set!
02-12-2010, 09:05 PM #10
May I suggest you specify precision grade bearings, I have a later version of your Macson and will check out what is in the book and try to match the bearings with a catalogue. If you can either cool the shaft or warm the bearing in oil (200oC max) before fitting it will enable the assembly to be made without force. I fitted some very expensive bearings to my lathe spinde that way and achieved complete success.
02-13-2010, 02:35 AM #11
02-13-2010, 03:23 AM #12
Its a #2M, formerly used at the railway workshops in Toowoomba, very well equipped and a load of handy bits made by a caring operator. Although the world has moved on to carbide tooling I still have a swag of HSS so it will see me through for a while yet.
02-24-2010, 05:35 PM #13
Your getting ISO and Abec numbers inverted there. Any thing with a “P” in it is a ISO number. The lower the number in ISO the better the grade. In ABEC the higher the number the better I:e ABEC 9 being the highest. P2 is the best grade in ISO. There is no P7, that would be a lesser grade than Abec 1
If your trying to find them in this country, P4 which is roughly equivalent to ABEC 7 is about all you will find. No one bothers to bring many P5’s in. Which is a lower grade. Once they bring in any thing in precision they will skip P5, P4 is common.
Your also going to have trouble finding anything in other than light preload. Its all any one brings in. You can order higher preloads, but they will have to bring them in. Are there any spacers between the two bearings?
Price – It might be worth you bouncing that via my supplier. I’m on a pretty good discount.
There’s also any amount of Kluber grease sitting here. No problems to put some in a syringe and post it up.
02-24-2010, 11:51 PM #14
Thanks for the info Phil, not sure what I am going to do yet or how far my rebuild will go...
The current bearings in the wheelhead are just plain single row deep groove ball bearings..They are not the originals and were put there by the previous owner who did a bit of a botched rebuild job on it (the slideways were scraped but are not flat) I doubt the bearings he put in there were the type that was originally installed as there is no way to preload the bearings or control end float..Since it is a clone of the cinci #2 I assumed the bearings would have been the same as well...
I have got myself a biax and hope to get a 36" straight edge so am just about ready to start inspecting the grinder to see what actually needs scraping to get the slides flat again.... The table runs on balls that run on removable hardened steel ways..They really need a bit of a lick on a grinder as well, but that is down the track a bit...
05-26-2010, 02:13 PM #15
05-26-2010, 02:21 PM #16
09-16-2011, 02:39 PM #17
I will update this old thread on my current progress... Yes it has been slow...
I have got ahold (provided they arrive) of some fafnir 2mm305WI DUL bearings for one side (light preload I know but they will have to do)... Have come to the conclusion getting a 2305 in a P5/P7 or better grade for a decent price (less then the grinder is worth) will be nigh on impossible.... As the plain ball bearing is floating I was wondering if just a single plain precision 6305 (mm305 fafnir number) would do or maybe even a pair of them if they could be located...
09-18-2011, 04:35 AM #18
Any ideas on whether precision 6305's (mm305 fafnirs) would be a suitable replacement for the 2305 floating....
A precision grade 2305 seems to be made out of unobtanium...