Cleaning up tapers on wheel hubs (flanges)

ballen · Nov 26, 2016

I bought a bunch of used wheel hubs for my J&S 540. On some, the internal tapers have burrs or gall marks or embedded chips. Is there a good way to clean these up? The spindle on my grinder has a perfect mirror finish and I'd like to keep it from getting chewed up. Is there some kind of stone or hone or reamer that I could use to clean up the internal tapers of the hubs? The tapers have a 15-degree included angle (European not US standard) and are about 1" OD at the large end.

One idea: glue three 6mm = 1/4" strips of 400-grit wet-or-dry sandpaper to the balancing mandrel taper, and use that to hone the tapers.

Cheers,
Bruce

moonlight machine · Nov 26, 2016

ballen said:
I bought a bunch of used wheel hubs for my J&S 540. On some, the internal tapers have burrs or gall marks or embedded chips. Is there a good way to clean these up? The spindle on my grinder has a perfect mirror finish and I'd like to keep it from getting chewed up. Is there some kind of stone or hone or reamer that I could use to clean up the internal tapers of the hubs? The tapers have a 15-degree included angle (European not US standard) and are about 1" OD at the large end.

One idea: glue three 6mm = 1/4" strips of 400-grit wet-or-dry sandpaper to the balancing mandrel taper, and use that to hone the tapers.

Cheers,
Bruce

That will last about 1 minute. I just knock the high spots off with a diamond lap. then spin it up in the lathe with a bit of scotch brite. Works fine for me, someone here won't like it but I don't care.

ballen · Nov 26, 2016

Thanks for the quick reply.

moonlight machine said:
That will last about 1 minute.

Sure, but 1 minute is all it will take to remove those imperfections. Then I swap in new strips of abrasive and do the next.

I just knock the high spots off with a diamond lap.

What do you use for a lap? Could you post a photo please?

Cheers,
Bruce

moonlight machine · Nov 26, 2016

The one I use is 23 x 111 x 5.5, DMT Diamond Stones for Sharpening and Honing will have anyting you want and better photos than I take.

jonok · Nov 26, 2016

I have had fairly good luck cleaning up galled internal tapers by turning sacrificial tapers out of cold rolled, and using valve grinding compound and subsequently lapping paste to polish things up.

IronReb · Nov 26, 2016

Keep in mind, you do not want to remove anything from the taper if you can help it.
Just a few thousands on a taper will cause the hub to move location a LOT.

Follow post #2 except I would add one more step.
After cleaning them up, use a fat tip black marker and "paint" the inside of the hub then gently fit it to arbor.
Remove and check for high spots, polish just were needed.

ballen · Nov 26, 2016

moonlight machine said:
The one I use is 23 x 111 x 5.5, DMT Diamond Stones for Sharpening and Honing will have anyting you want and better photos than I take.

I'm confused about which DMT diamond stone you are using. Is it rectangular? Cylindrical? Tapered? I've looked at the web site but can't see one with the dimensions you are giving above. So a bit more information would be very helpful.

moonlight machine · Nov 26, 2016

ballen said:
I'm confused about which DMT diamond stone you are using. Is it rectangular? Cylindrical? Tapered? I've looked at the web site but can't see one with the dimensions you are giving above. So a bit more information would be very helpful.

They may not have the exact size anymore. Look on the website, pocket models, 4" machinist diamond whetstone with 1" continuous diamond area. 29.85 This is about the same thing as I use.

Bill in PA · Nov 26, 2016

I have used a brake cylinder hone (with oil) in a cordless drill on a slow speed to clean up morse taper sockets and other small tapers. If there is a heavy burr or ding, I would scrape or stone that spot first.

Bill

ballen · Nov 27, 2016

moonlight machine said:
They may not have the exact size anymore. Look on the website, pocket models, 4" machinist diamond whetstone with 1" continuous diamond area. 29.85 This is about the same thing as I use.

I could not find this on the DMT website, but eventually found this on Amazon:
DMT WMF 4-Inch Machinist Diamond Whetstone With 1" Continuous Diamond Area - Fine - Sharpening Stones - Amazon.com
Is that what you mean? If so, there must be some confusion, since this is a flat stone. I need to clean the INSIDE of hub tapers, not the external spindle arbor. This stone will not even fit inside the hub taper, and anyway there is no way to use a flat stone to clean up an inside taper. If there is, please share that!

Cheers,
Bruce

How do you use this flat stone to clean the INSIDE of a hub taper?

moonlight machine · Nov 27, 2016

ballen said:
I could not find this on the DMT website, but eventually found this on Amazon:
DMT WMF 4-Inch Machinist Diamond Whetstone With 1" Continuous Diamond Area - Fine - Sharpening Stones - Amazon.com
Is that what you mean? If so, there must be some confusion, since this is a flat stone. I need to clean the INSIDE of a hub taper, not the external spindle arbor. This stone even fit inside the hub taper, and anyway there is no way to use a flat stone to clean up an inside taper. If there is, please share that!

Cheers,
Bruce

How do you use this flat stone to clean the INSIDE of a hub taper?

I was talking about cleaning an outside taper

ballen · Nov 27, 2016

moonlight machine said:
I was talking about cleaning an outside taper

As I wrote in my original post: "The spindle on my grinder has a perfect mirror finish and I'd like to keep it from getting chewed up. Is there some kind of stone or hone or reamer that I could use to clean up the INTERNAL tapers of the hubs?"

dgfoster · Nov 27, 2016

ballen said:
As I wrote in my original post: "The spindle on my grinder has a perfect mirror finish and I'd like to keep it from getting chewed up. Is there some kind of stone or hone or reamer that I could use to clean up the INTERNAL tapers of the hubs?"

Are there just a few goobers in each bore? If so, I would just use a Dremel/Foredom/air tool and a small stone point and just zip the individual spots off. You would still have plenty of bearing.

Otherwise you could regrind the taper with a not-so-easy set up using the equivalent of a faceplate on a spindex. Requires a sine plate setup, mounting a grinder on the spindle housing of your grinder etc, etc, etc.

I would just zip the spots off.

Denis

ballen · Nov 27, 2016

Hi Dennis,

Some of the tapers have a couple of obvious spots. Since I have a dremel and suitable small stones, I think your solution is a good one for those.

But some of the tapers have scratch marks that go around the inside (as if they had been spun on a taper) or some rust and corrosion over broad areas. It would be nice to have a good way to handle those.

(I don't have the gear needed to regrind the insides of the tapers. At best I could mount them on my lathe and put a die grinder on the lathe compound. But I don't think I could match the inside angle precisely enough, or get a finish that was good enough.)

Cheers,
Bruce

michiganbuck · Nov 27, 2016

Guess I would blue it up and try on a good taper,then hone just the high spots to get a blue in fit on the majority of the ID . Don"t think I would use any abrasive on my master taper. *Might you lathe turn a spot on taper between centers and then use same with some lapping compound.
Agree if you are hand skilled you might take larger bugs with a Dremel, hone or even a file.
A spindle nose is so easy to fine sand that just the looks of it does not always mean it is that good.

dgfoster · Nov 27, 2016

ballen said:
Hi Dennis,

Some of the tapers have a couple of obvious spots. Since I have a dremel and suitable small stones, I think your solution is a good one for those.

But some of the tapers have scratch marks that go around the inside (as if they had been spun on a taper) or some rust and corrosion over broad areas. It would be nice to have a good way to handle those.

(I don't have the gear needed to regrind the insides of the tapers. At best I could mount them on my lathe and put a die grinder on the lathe compound. But I don't think I could match the inside angle precisely enough, or get a finish that was good enough.)

Cheers,
Bruce

Not at all pushing the idea of a regrind, but you might be surprised how good results can be obtained with a small hand grinder mounted on the spindle to do internal round grinds. I have mounts for both a Metabo and Foredom both of which I have used with simple ALOX points while turning the work in a simple spindex. I made seven Sopko copies from A2 that way several years ago when my grinder was new to me. The results were excellent. I was using one of those wheel adaptors to do some grinding an hour ago. They are the equal to the Sopko in every way.

More to your problem: you could grind down the circular groove raised edges just as you mentioned---put the adaptor in your lathe four-jaw and simply grind the groove only using a mounted hand grinder to make a usable tool post grinder. Sure you remove a little bearing surface but the adaptors have many times the needed bearing surface.

Lightly lapping as Buck suggests seems a good approach as well. Maybe tool post for grooves and lap for rust?

Denis

michiganbuck · Nov 28, 2016

With a night to sleep on the hub tapers:
Make a stub shank taper cone with compound lap tool. I will say inch and you can think metric.
The cone 1/8 longer at the small end and ¼ longer at the large end than your spindle nose, and the stub shank 2 ½ long. The shank ½ or ¾ inch but a fit to your drill chuck and perfect with oil to a drill or reamer bushing you have or can buy.
Turn it between centers with the big end center ½ inch dia, with having a 3/8-16 tap hole ½ deep.

Repair process: Hand file and paper and plate restore the hub mount back face to restore that surface to witness the original manufactured surface with blue up if needed. Next set on surface grinder and skim the front (small end) hub mount end dead flat (then de burr). Set mount in drill press and at perhaps 100 RPM compound lap too; hone the inside taper. Yes de-bug the major ID bugs before this finish hone. Yes you may find you can hold this new tool in the lathe and hand hold the mount to the charged tool.

With a little off you can clean and place compound only at one end of the lap tool to slightly alter the taper to make a blue in to your gauge..

michiganbuck · Nov 28, 2016

*With a perfect with light oil fit to a drill or reamer bushing you have or can buy you have a poor man's whirlley gig. The bushing fits a rectangular block perhaps 1 ¼ x 1 ¼ x 2 1/2. The block is clamped to an angle plate so it can be set at square or at angle. The threaded end hole is for a driver that you turn by hand. The taper restore tool can be restored with this on the surface grinder for perfect angle…. Also you can stub with small 4jaw chuck and have a nice Chuck OD Grinder Fixture. You can also make stubs for common cutters and use it as a work head for surface grinder cutter sharpening. Face it up at 1/2 degree off 90* and sharpen end mill ends with a set screw hold bushing.(yes the opposite end on a block or shim)
Such if cared for lasts accurately for years. (Yes you can make a close fit 2" dia plastic washer dust shield to fit the stub and this device will last for a very long time. Yes you most often use it dry so not collecting grit in oil.)

moonlight machine · Nov 28, 2016

ballen said:
As I wrote in my original post: "The spindle on my grinder has a perfect mirror finish and I'd like to keep it from getting chewed up. Is there some kind of stone or hone or reamer that I could use to clean up the INTERNAL tapers of the hubs?"

Please excuse me.

michiganbuck · Nov 28, 2016

We made some mounts with 1/4' hitting at the large end and 1/4 " at the small end with missing at the center area. This to avoid bell mouthed convex condition on the mount to spindle nose. Yes with a blue in to the taper.

It was not uncommon to see drilled holes in mounts that were for balancing the mount that did not have movable weights. Now it seems nobody(or few) provide that, perhaps expecting people to balance every wheel. I mostly don't balance 7" wheels.

Cleaning up tapers on wheel hubs (flanges)

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