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Has any body modified a surface grinder so the wheel is 90 deg from standard?

ratbldr427

Titanium
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Location
jacksonville,fl.
Probably not,however let me explain.
Our die dept.has a nice G&L 618 hydraulic SG that they need yo use as a SG.There are times when they need to have stacks of die knife ground with various width notches.The knifes are 14"-16" long and need to be square,so not enough travel in Z even by grinding half & turning to do the other half and don't want a radius cut.

The obvious answer is to buy a T&C grinder(which I have a LeBlond #2 that the wheel head is t-slotted to take a drop down internal spindle).I am not ready to give up my LeBlond and they cannot add another machine in that department.

I can modify the 618 wjth the hyd.feed which will save a lot of hand cranking when grinding the notches.
I see a lot of various spindles on E-Bay particularly Dumore TP.I want to use at least a 6"-7" wheel.I also see some with internal motors but may be to large.

The wheel guard is mounted so that I can remove it easily and make an adapter to take a spindle to mount there,it is strong enough and looks like I can get it close enough to center to notch 16" knifes
I have enough head space and plan to add a DRO.
I know this is weird but has anyone done this or seen some thing like this?
 
The OP isn't talking about a tub grinder. He wants to mount his parts along the length of the table and use the X axis to grind slots, with a tool post grinder mounted on the spindle housing. The only problem I would see would be making small movements in X to grind the slots to size, and locking the table in one spot.

If you can't add another machine to the department you might be better off sending the work out. You will spend quite a few hours modifying the machine and then the time to set it up every time you want to grind this part.

Have you given any thought to having a dedicated fixture to grind this part. I'm just guessing what your part looks like but I'm thinking about an angle plate with a rail mounted at 45 degrees and a stop for the tooth to locate against. Then dress a 45 degree angle on the wheel grind down to a number move part to the next tooth and repeat. Again I'm just guessing what your part looks like.
 
SIPA the die knife looks just like a steel ruler, .020"-.040" thick by .940" high.They go in a steel rule die to cut paper cartons.
They can't handle the lead time on a lot of jobs(they send it all out now) and sometimes they need to experiment on specials.I have been grinding what I can for them but the notches are something new.

The notch depth is somewhat critical as it creates the fold score between the knife cuts.
The notches that are 1/8" + or - look to have been milled,maybe with a carbide saw?
I will have to look closer maybe the longer notches were milled also.
Any way the length of cut will be handled by the DRO and the lock is no problem.Notching thin pieces on edge may be a wheel eater,definitely a learning curve.The die knife comes already sharpened,just need to notch.

I have a mill with a DRO and a right angle head so I might try that.
 
SIP6A the die knife looks just like a steel ruler, .020"-.040" thick by .940" high.They go in a steel rule die to cut paper cartons.
They can't handle the lead time on a lot of jobs(they send it all out now) and sometimes they need to experiment on specials.I have been grinding what I can for them but the notches are something new.

The notch depth is somewhat critical as it creates the fold score between the knife cuts.
The notches that are 1/8" + or - look to have been milled,maybe with a carbide saw?
I will have to look closer maybe the longer notches were milled also.
Any way the length of cut will be handled by the DRO and the lock is no problem.Notching thin pieces on edge may be a wheel eater,definitely a learning curve.The die knife comes already sharpened,just need to notch.

I have a mill with a DRO and a right angle head so I might try that.

OK, much clearer. So were talking about steel rule. When I was a kid my dad built some steel rule dies for Purolater. If I remember correctly he just milled the steel rule stock, they weren't that hard. Perhaps you could make a fixture to hold the stock so that it doesn't deflect when you go through it with an end mill.
 
It's easy as hell. You send a drawing (and maybe the material) to Cash and , Viola! there it is.

And , no Sip, He doesn't need a "tub grinder". They are for grinding vegetation and wood waste, especially here in Arizona where developers can clear a patch of desert and it would take a DNA test to see what protected species they fuck up.
 
Probably not,however let me explain.
Our die dept.has a nice G&L 618 hydraulic SG that they need yo use as a SG.There are times when they need to have stacks of die knife ground with various width notches.The knifes are 14"-16" long and need to be square,so not enough travel in Z even by grinding half & turning to do the other half and don't want a radius cut.

The obvious answer is to buy a T&C grinder(which I have a LeBlond #2 that the wheel head is t-slotted to take a drop down internal spindle).I am not ready to give up my LeBlond and they cannot add another machine in that department.

I can modify the 618 wjth the hyd.feed which will save a lot of hand cranking when grinding the notches.
I see a lot of various spindles on E-Bay particularly Dumore TP.I want to use at least a 6"-7" wheel.I also see some with internal motors but may be to large.

The wheel guard is mounted so that I can remove it easily and make an adapter to take a spindle to mount there,it is strong enough and looks like I can get it close enough to center to notch 16" knifes
I have enough head space and plan to add a DRO.
I know this is weird but has anyone done this or seen some thing like this?

I like your plan.
I would consider a removable counterbalancing weight on the end of the existing motor to keep from wearing your Z ways if your new spindle weighs very much. Of course it's more load on the screw now but Z screws/nut are easier to replace.
I don't like standing in front of the wheel to run it.

a cheap dc electric spindle for hobby cnc routers would likely be plenty good for the sub spindle. - if you can match a safe speed to your wheel
dc spindle - Google Search
 
I've done what your looking to do on a cnc with a carbide endmill, I have a fixture that clamps the steel rule flat, then I can put the slots in the part. the slots are 1/16 wide, and were for steel rule dies for cutting cardboard.
 
I hear what you are looking for, A bridgeport 90 degree head mounted to the a SG grinder spindle. There is a high speed 90 degree spindle available for a BP, That might be a better choice.
 
Sipa,cash you have the right idea as to the type of material.Tdegenhart the radial arm saw was the first thing that came to my mind,however the lack of an accurate down feed and rigidity is a problem.

dsergison the G&L grinders have the motors hung on the back opposite the wheel to balance them,so it would be easy to add a ballast weight the same weight as the add ons if necessary.

triumph406 I looked at a sample and it didn't appear to be ground,however if it was milled it was very rough.

Toms Wheels I thought I had seen a HS RA attachment some where.

Die room manager told me that the cost for specials,weather one piece or twenty is $400-$500 and a one to two week lead time,so if I spend $1-$2k on a mod it will pay for its self.
To be clear there is no way I would consider trying to make standard slotted knife,be like making your own nuts & bolts to save money. I think the lead time is killing him as much as anything.

Thanks for all your replies,I have been tied up on some breakdowns and have to put this project aside for a while.
I just spent the last two days on my back in a cubby hole under the infeed of one of our presses doing what would be a 4-5 hr job if it was accessable.Times like this my 72 year old body says "just think about retiring ,ok!"Told the body quit yer bitchin I feel your pain! I some times think the Germans are getting even for losing the war.
 
Just build a leaver operated punch, its how nearly all the die cutting world does there notches and it works fine in all but the heaviest and hardest of blades. Its really only the clicker press leather working time tools that actually have to be ground as the blades are such a heavy section.

That said, if you dig a little most rule suppliers offer notched blade as a std profile. Whole range of different angles, bevels and perfs - scores are all avalible off the shelf for a fraction of the effort of grinding them in.

Rather than use a surface grinder a simple jig and a dressed wheel on a bench grinder would be a lot easier way to go if you really do want to do your own.
 
How about a Slicer and Dicer? It is or was made to slowly grind ceramic and phenolic boards in the computer industry. They were very popular in the 80's. Do-all converted surface grinders so they moved super slow and had very accurate auto crossfeed. They used thin diamond wheels. Look in surplusrscord.com or Machinetools.com. I bet a dealer practically give one away as I haven't seen or read about one in 30 years. You could make a fixture to hold the blade so you could grind multiple blades one one set up. They had auto feed down too. Or make your invention because you sound as if you want to real bad and if you don't you always wished you had. That's why they say Live and Learn. Might work or not. You will be the hero or the dumb ass. ��
 
Adama you must have missed one of my posts,we have as complete a die rule shop as anyone,have probably 30 manual die rule notchers/benders and a CNC notcher/bender.Our other plant laser burns our boards and water jets our rubber if needed.
The sample I looked at had a .015" deep notch x .500" wide.NOT standard! See the time & cost above as to why.

Richard I have seen those slicer dicers on E-Bay and wondered what was different from a regular SG.
The main reason for using the SG is the accurate down feed/rigidity and the fast we already have one.
As much as I like designing & making things to me it is the last resort.

I've told people that want me to make something from scratch that it is possible if you have the time and money,but we will soon find out that you don't want to invest enough of either.
 
Richard I have a 14x24 G&L SG with incremental DF.It has a plunge mode and the hydraulic feed can be adjusted to barely move at all,probably even to creep feed.
The cross will actually travel 16"-17" if you over run the reversal dog.However it uses 12"-14" x 5" hole wheels which would not be very economical.

Adama I grind those dies & punches to sharpen them in the manual notchers.I might make a die set to try but I think that shallow of a notch on the bevel edge will probably bend the blade tip at the corners.
 








 
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