Mitsui 6 x 12 MSG-200 Coolant Retrofit

aerodark · Jun 28, 2014

I bought a vintage Mitsui at auction. It will be going into my garage and I want to add a coolant system to it. I bought a Graymills 17 gallon tank and pump, and am buying the Coolant Cover kit from Mitsui. Does anyone out there have a pic they could send of their similar setup? Thanks in advance.

AD Design · Jun 29, 2014

I have the same grinder, and likely the same Graymills coolant pump/tank. My coolant system isn't set up yet, haven't needed it. Are you just looking for placement suggestions?

aerodark · Jun 29, 2014

Placement, nozzle setup. wheel cover (non-stock I assume), filtration, what have you.

AD Design · Jun 29, 2014

Tank to the right of the machine to avoid some of the grit, plastic snap-together type for articulating nozzle w/thumbscrew, standard pinch valve on right side of wheel cover. The nozzle itself should lend itself to the type of grinding you're doing. I prefer fan end for larger flat work, small single-stream for round type work. If you're not sure if the wheel cover may be non-standard I can verify that with a photo. If it doesn't look like the same design as the rest of the machine it probably isn't OEM.

aerodark · Jun 29, 2014

Pics would be great. Here is what I will be getting: (adding new parts to a 35 year old grinder!) :nutter:

AD Design · Jun 30, 2014

I'll have to go take some photos to compare. I think (advancing CRS) the wheel guard on mine is fairly square, a cast material, and the coolant hose is attached via a hole that's cast in. I'll go get some photos tonight after I feed horses. Your grinder looks much cleaner than mine when I got it. I had to tear mine down for extensive cleaning, it had every job it ever did still on it. The sump at the bottom was quite the primordial pool. Check the oil lines, some folks seem to find motor oil a ready substitute and the high wax content will surely clog the lines. When you call Mitsui in Elk Grove Village for parts you may get a Japanese fellow that will remark "That very old machine". They may not be much help. I would also strongly suggest that the table be taken off for transporting it to your shop. There are ball bearing type inserts for table travel (saddle too IIRC) and transport will have those ball bearings hammering into the table/saddle ways, not conducive for a good finish. Did you get a manual with it?

aerodark · Jun 30, 2014

Thanks AD. That is NOT my grinder! It is a factory picture of the coolant cover kit and the special wheel guard they sell for coolant applications. The wheel cover sells for $880 so that isn't happening!

I ordered a manual and have been actively brushing up on the grinder. Tramming the wheel head and such. What grease are you using on the ball ways? The manual recommends Mobil #2. I think the synthetic grease Mobil 1 will work fine, but have not gotten a response from Illinois yet.

It will be cleaned thoroughly. The rigger removed the table and it will ship disassembled. I have already purchased new balls and cages for the longitudinal ways. I think the saddle just has standard cast iron vee ways. I have ordered new metering units and will do a thorough inspection of the lines. I also have bought the dust guards for the table and the wipers.

AD Design · Jun 30, 2014

Let's see if I can upload an image;

Factory pic huh? No wonder it looked so good. A modest price of $880 would send me in search of other choices too. I believe that the wheel guard on mine is OEM, sure looks like the dozen or so that I've used over the years. I've never run a Taft-Pierce or a Parker but I've run a lot of Boyer-Schultz, Okamoto, Reid, Browne & Sharpe, and like the Mitsui's (much as I hate to admit THEY make a nice grinder). Because I wasn't sure how it had survived the travel and didn't have 3 phase to the shop yet I just assembled it with a light coat of lithium grease and the suggested way oil. Have power now but am still some time out from quitting the day job. I'll likely be removing the table again and will use a better grade of grease (probably a moly added sort) for re-assembly. If you bought new balls did you purchase new ways for it as well? Those were going for about $800 for new way inserts (hardened D-2) and the balls for a full assembly IIRC.

aerodark · Jun 30, 2014

That looks like the standard wheel cover. I don't think mine has the block that the nozzle mounts to. Is that dust scoop attached to a vacuum?

AD Design · Jun 30, 2014

I don't think that the block for the nozzle was OEM either, probably someone that had sticker shock from the OEM price and found a lower cost alternative. The sheet metal dust scoop is decidedly non-standard as well, the angle of the scoop pivots for adjustment and that helps with height issues. Yes the scoop is for vacuum. The top of the wheel guard looks like it has a provision for a top mounted dresser but I don't really like those after they've worn or get grit in them. The reservoir at the top that lubes the vertical ways really seemed to have attracted a lot of crud (tech term). I don't know about you but when I was still in the shop there was a minimum amount of time spent on preventive maintenance (overhead) and in the rush to generate profit the grinders were often run-til-worn. The Mitsui castings seem solid, your attention should yield a good machine when you're done. What are you intending to mostly grind flat,round, or profile?

aerodark · Jun 30, 2014

All the above. I have a complete Sine System I want to get some use out of.

I talked to Mike at Accurate Grinder Repair in Indiana, and he said out of 100 or so of these grinders he has refurbished, only two required new ways to be installed. That gave me hope that this one was OK.

AD Design · Jun 30, 2014

It may be just fine as Mike said, proof is in the finish. Hope it works out for you.

aerodark · Jul 24, 2014

I took delivery of this and the Monarch 10ee yesterday, getting them unloaded and into my garage without a hitch. The chuck is shot. The cross feed needs a new screw/nut. The rigger blocked the WHEEL rather than the spindle housing. I don't think it was ever cleaned. What is the proper way to remove the saddle? The table is off already. :ack2:

So far I have bought the replacement balls/cages, way wiper set, metering units for the oiler, dust guards for the table, and the coolant cover. I splurged on a Magnescale DRO w/ .00002 resolution. a brand new one for 24k sounds high but replacement parts will add up in a hurry. The hand scraped fee ways on the saddle look good by eye, still showing the pocks of scraping. It does look like oil is getting to where it needs to.

AD Design · Jul 24, 2014

It was a couple of years ago when I disassembled mine but I seem to recall it being fairly straightforward. If the table is already off have a look at how the cross feed hand wheel is held to the base. I seem to recall it being a simple matter once the hand wheel is free to crank the lead screw out. I used a stout oak bench I made and an engine hoist to tear the entire thing down to base. There were a few moments when another pair of hands would have helped, they didn't scrimp on cast iron. If you have a few slings/straps/belts and a bench you can hoist the saddle off without much trouble. I did this all by myself and I'm an Olde Phart (59). I don't mean to diminish your questions or minimize what needs to be done but it really seemed fairly straightforward for machine tear down. Going back together is where the extra hands will come in handy to avoid a hard touchdown on ways when assembling it back together. Oh yeah, the sump in the base will likely resemble The Black Lagoon.

Blocked on the WHEEL during shipping? Bloody hacks.

10ee too? I've run quite a few lathes in 25+ years as a toolmaker, I consider the 10ee to be one of the nicest lathes in it's size that I'd ever laid hands on. Openly envious here.

aerodark · Jul 24, 2014

I got the cross feed screw out and the saddle is now free. According to the picture in the replacement parts manual, the screw is supposed to be covered by a bellows like the old dirt bikes used to cover the fork tubes. If it was originally equipped with one, it evaporated. Mitsui now offers a ball screw and nut for these. I am preparing myself for sticker shock when they send me a quote.

I will go through the tramming process once I get a good mag chuck and get it leveled. I have never trammed a grinder's wheel head. At 52 I still have so much to learn.

The Monarch lathe stole my heart once the pair arrived. I did not plan on buying a lathe, but this auction came up in a very obscure location and I threw a bid out there and won it. I really liked the one I ran for two years in Kennewick. It had its share of electronic challenges. I hope to avoid all that by doing a 7-1/2 HP AC retrofit with VFD........

Home toolroom coming together nicely. Need a knee mill!

AD Design · Jul 24, 2014

I don't recall a bellows-like boot in the cross feed on mine either, we've both been hoodwinked. You've asked for a quote from factory because.....? If you've got a decent DRO on this then why ask for replacement parts? Too much money in the bank?

Tramming the wheel head is something you need to do to say you've lived a full life.

Saw photos of the Monarch, looks real nice. When repaired it should be a joy to use every time you fire it up. Smooooooth in the cut, doesn't get ruffled by a healthy DOC either.

Sometimes you get the unexpected results from an auction, that's how I ended up with a Mitsui jig borer, tooling, and Heidenhain DRO for the price of a clapped out BP. Glad you scored big on that one, must have felt like your birthday. Can't offer any help on electronic retrofit for the Monarch, you seem to be in good hands already.

Yes you need a knee mill.

aerodark · Jul 24, 2014

Money? Bank? I understood everything else you wrote but these terms are foreign to me! Hoping to add a few pesos to a stagnant and small 401K with some side work on my machines. ONCE THEY FUNCTION!

sfriedberg · Jul 25, 2014

I cleaned up an MSG-205MH (6x18 on the same chassis as the -200) last year. It had spent years cutting off pins, apparently, and was absolutely loaded with oily grit. The first cleaning pass was with a spatula. Fortunately, longitudinal ways were free of the grit. Cross ways were Turcited or similar, and look a bit worn and dirty, but I have not mapped out the wear to see if they need reconditioning.

Cross lead screw had a damaged boot, which I replaced ($35). Also put in a new set of way wipers ($220, ouch).

aerodark, I have an spare almost 6x18 fine pitch permanent magnet chuck in excellent shape. It's "almost 6x18" as it's metric 150x450mm. I intended to replace my old Walker chuck, but have been waffling about losing the extra fractions of an inch. If you think you can mount the 6x18 to your table, I'm sure we can strike a good deal, and I'm down I-5 in the Portland area.

Red James · Jul 25, 2014

Put the coolant tank on the left side of the machine even though it does get a little more grit in it. Reason? The drain that is built in to the machine is on the left.

Mitsui makes a soft cross feed screw that wears quickly, but as someone ^ said, with a DRO why worry about it?

The grease Mitsui uses on the balls is a soft, creamy consistancy. Since the balls only roll, never slide, I'm not sure how important this is. The oiler only supplies waylube to the cross slide ways, not the long ways, and on newer machines the oil also lubes the wheel housing area. My Mitsui of 35 years ago had an oil cup above the wheel spindle that needed filled daily. You have a wonderful grinder that can easily be made into a very accurate machine. Replace the hardened D-2 ways only if you need to, but they are not hard to change.

aerodark · Jul 26, 2014

Thanks for the offer sfriedberg, but I found a Suburban on ebay that bought. Anyone use one of these?

http://www.subtool.com/st/dmb_magnum-force_permanent_magnetic_surface_grinder_chucks.html

I plan on using Mobil 1 synthetic grease for the ballways. The manual calls for Mobil number two grease.

I will be removing the saddle later today.

Here is the port from the saddle. How did you attach a fitting for the drain?

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Mitsui 6 x 12 MSG-200 Coolant Retrofit

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