Surface Grinder Purchase - Size

Pete Deal · Feb 28, 2017

I am thinking about buying a surface grinder. No immediate need just general purpose job shop use. I see what is described as a Doall 12x24 that is not too far away on craigslist. It looks over priced to me and no picture so who knows. At one point I started to buy a Doall, I think 16" travel machine and backed out because I had no way to handle it a the time. But is sure looked like a nice machine. The size/weight is not a big issue now. Is there any downside to buying a say 12x24 vs a smaller machine? Practically speaking it seems to me that the footprint is not all that much different between a 24" and a 12" travel machine so if a person is to have just one surface grinder a bigger one would be better (within reason) and hydraulic would be better. Is there a flaw in this reasoning?

Larry Dickman · Feb 28, 2017

we used to have a Harig 618. I think they made a billion of them and it was a nice little grinder. Only thing was, half the time I'd have a part that was 1/2" too long, or a 1/2" too wide. I found an old Doall 10 x 20. That'll handle anything we've had come up. I paid about $600 for it, and it cost me that much again to move it.

One thing though, mine has a 3" dia arbor, I would imagine a 12 x 24 would too. That makes the wheels quite expensive to buy new. However, any time I see 3"id wheels at auction, I get them dirt cheap because nobody else bids on them.

Pete Deal · Mar 2, 2017

This machine was listed on the Pittsburgh craigslist for near $4000 with no picture. I inquired about this machine because I like the looks of the Doall surface grinders in general. I figured the price was too high but maybe it's beautiful? Maybe the price is just a high starting point? who knows? Here is the picture he sent me. When I told him he was asking too much he seemed a little offended. I think it will continue to rust where it is what do you think?

Larry Dickman · Mar 2, 2017

The condition of the magnet is probably the most important, a new one will cost you 5x what the grinders worth.
IMO, this looks like a project. If you really like it, and you can't live without it, $1K tops.

Pete Deal · Mar 2, 2017

That is exactly what I was thinking. I was about prepared to offer him $1k then I though do I really need a project? Anyway the seller took care of it for me so it all works out!

ratbldr427 · Mar 4, 2017

I have a G&L 14"x24"x14" sg that I would sell for $2,500.It has incremental df and every thing works.It weighs about 11k lbs.It under power at my lace of work in Jacksonville FL.
There were pictures of it in the member shop photos forum if they are still there.

Milland · Mar 4, 2017

ratbldr427 said:
I have a G&L 14"x24"x14" sg that I would sell for $2,500.It has incremental df and every thing works.It weighs about 11k lbs.It under power at my lace of work in Jacksonville FL.
There were pictures of it in the member shop photos forum if they are still there.

Sounds like it's a nice grinder, but are you sure about the weight? 11K lbs seems about twice what I'd expect for a machine that size. This old Ebay listing for a 14" x 24" Gallmeyer & Livingston SG mentions the weight as 5,700lbs:

14" x 24" Gallmeyer & Livingston Hydraulic Surface Grinder (#26651) | eBay

Not trying to dog you, it'll help you sell the machine if you have an accurate description of it.

Pete Deal · Mar 4, 2017

11k lb would be a little much for me to handle. I am looking for something closer to home. I will have at least as much as you are asking in getting it to me.

dcsipo · Mar 4, 2017

Pete Deal said:
This machine was listed on the Pittsburgh craigslist for near $4000 with no picture. I inquired about this machine because I like the looks of the Doall surface grinders in general. I figured the price was too high but maybe it's beautiful? Maybe the price is just a high starting point? who knows? Here is the picture he sent me. When I told him he was asking too much he seemed a little offended. I think it will continue to rust where it is what do you think?

I trump that...paid 100 bucks for this dude...needs rescraping but it was all working before the oiler failed.

weighs 3500 lbs

dee
;-D

Monarchist · Mar 4, 2017

Milland said:
Sounds like it's a nice grinder, but are you sure about the weight? 11K lbs seems about twice what I'd expect for a machine that size. This old Ebay listing for a 14" x 24" Gallmeyer & Livingston SG mentions the weight as 5,700lbs:

14" x 24" Gallmeyer & Livingston Hydraulic Surface Grinder (#26651) | eBay

Not trying to dog you, it'll help you sell the machine if you have an accurate description of it.

No such thing as a 'light' G&M built much after War One. Well worth checking the mass.

Monarchist · Mar 4, 2017

Pete Deal said:
11k lb would be a little much for me to handle. I am looking for something closer to home. I will have at least as much as you are asking in getting it to me.

Frederick, MD is within range of Morganhole. Guy had a nice-photo'ed and reasonably late-model Gardner on CL there for about a year. Central PA and North-East PA are also decent pickin's, Parker-Majestic's and Taft-Pierce.

Paolo_MD · Mar 4, 2017

Pete Deal said:
That is exactly what I was thinking. I was about prepared to offer him $1k then I though do I really need a project? Anyway the seller took care of it for me so it all works out!

If you don't want a project and want something still capable of grinding flat, when you go inspecting it, bring with you a parallel, a couple of 123 blocks, and a dial indicator: set the block at the opposite ends of the chuck or on the table. Put the parallel over the blocks and indicate it with the dial indicator while traversing the table. If you have hard time interpreting what is going on, make a plot with the table position (in inches) on the X axis and the readings of the dial indicator on the Y axis: any deviation from linearity is the amount of concavity or convexity the machine would grind on your part.
Assuming your parallel is nice and smooth, any jumping of the indicator needle will reveal other kind of issues with the ways.

Paolo

Larry Dickman · Mar 5, 2017

Pete Deal said:
11k lb would be a little much for me to handle. I am looking for something closer to home. I will have at least as much as you are asking in getting it to me.

3500 sounds more reasonable

ratbldr427 · Mar 6, 2017

My grinder weighs about 8,500 lbs.It is a 1970 Grand Rapids model 460,7.5 hp spindle motor,14" wheels down to 10"(has 2 pulley ratios).I don't know what I was thinking about the 11k weight.However I don't think ,in the same size travels, that there are any grinders that weigh any more,G&L definitely believed in mass.
I am getting close to retirement,maybe next couple of years maybe sooner and I don't think I'll be bringing it home.

Monarchist · Mar 6, 2017

ratbldr427 said:
G&L definitely believed in mass.

Yazz. Founder members of the Church of Higher Gravity, G&L were...

I am getting close to retirement,maybe next couple of years maybe sooner and I don't think I'll be bringing it home.

Not so long as Florida based, no.

G&L deserve burial with full honours, not shagged off to a Chinese re-melt to make HF tool-shaped-objects.

That eventual burial is a problem for those big 'uns. Wants a bigger backhoe, stout crane to lower into the grave, and then you have an odds-on chance to have hit brackish ground-water, half the state.

Better to get you a smaller Parker-Majestic for retirement. Won't need burial. Those are carried off by Valkyries when they die.

ratbldr427 · Mar 6, 2017

Before I got my 460 I had a model 25 6x18 G&L ,which I sold to the company.I was very impressed by the little one so when this one became available I couldn't resist.Now looking at retirement I wouldn't mind having the 6x18.
The 6x18 had no hydraulic unit with it when I bought it.I wondered why some one would rob the hydo unit out of a pristine very little use machine.When I got home I found that early in its life some dummy had managed to break the lug off the bottom of the table that the cylinder rod attached to.A simple fix and I built a new hydro unit for it.Turned out to be a sweet little machine,the broken lug probably saved it from further abuse.

Monarchist · Mar 6, 2017

ratbldr427 said:
I wondered why some one would rob the hydo unit out of a pristine very little use machine.When I got home I found that early in its life some dummy had managed to break the lug off the bottom of the table that the cylinder rod attached to.A simple fix and I built a new hydro unit for it.Turned out to be a sweet little machine,the broken lug probably saved it from further abuse.

My X350 had sat for half a year on dealer's lots. Nobody wanted to touch an 83 thousand mile long-wheelbase Jaguar, pristine glass, burl walnut, Connolly hides, and paint or no - that Carfax and Autocheck showed as having had a whole new engine furnished under factory warranty only 35,000 miles earlier.

Low-mileage 4.2 V8 sure has brought its share of cheap grins to MY face for a mere $10,600, though!

adama · Mar 8, 2017

Ruff rule of thumb seams to be a 6x18" surface grinders a good size match for a bridgeport's typical sized work. If your running towards the larger end of bridgeport work then you want a bigger grinder. Like all machine tools bigger is nearly always better :-) Trade off becomes space, as they get bigger they soon consume a hell of a lot more of it!

IMHO condition is everything in grinder purchasing, there a high prescion device and unless you want to rebuild it you want to buy something good to start with. Unlike a lot of tools, they seam to have very little value second hand compared to new too.

Hobby Shop · Mar 9, 2017

Around here, you can't give grinders away. I've scrapped 2 and thinking about scrapping a 3rd. One was a G&L 10x24.

Monarchist · Mar 9, 2017

adama said:
Ruff rule of thumb seams to be a 6x18" surface grinders a good size match for a bridgeport's typical sized work. If your running towards the larger end of bridgeport work then you want a bigger grinder. Like all machine tools bigger is nearly always better :-) Trade off becomes space, as they get bigger they soon consume a hell of a lot more of it!

IMHO condition is everything in grinder purchasing, there a high prescion device and unless you want to rebuild it you want to buy something good to start with. Unlike a lot of tools, they seam to have very little value second hand compared to new too.

Takes a bit of expertise, goodly selection of wheels, fixturing, and dressers, exposure to 'many' setup challenges, and frequent setup and operation to use a SG effectively, 'revenue' wise. Grind shops maintain all that, spread the costs over 'many' customers. It is their "Day job".

If honest as to ALL our costs, most of the rest of us cannot dedicate a good enough person, space, power, time, and money to even match, let alone beat, what an experienced grind shop charges.. and not ruin some of the work.

SG's go out the door in favor of something with which we CAN still make our crust.

Not rocket insemination.

Any smallholder contemplating even STARTING to go against that flow should re-check his math as to the REAL costs of becoming slave to a hungry Surface Grinder.

If it has heels, wheels, wings, or screws, (noun OR verb..) it is generally cheaper to hire than own.

Surface Grinder Purchase - Size

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