Taft Peirce #1 refresh - lots of pictures
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  1. #1
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    Default Taft Peirce #1 refresh - lots of pictures

    Since there is not a lot of info on these around I figured I'd document my refresh here.

    Serial number on front of carriage is 2592, can someone tell me the date of manufacture?

    Calling it a refresh vs rebuild as it will be a clean, paint and reassemble. The ball bearing ways show the usual marks from bearings rolling in a track but nothing that I can tell needs to be addressed at this point. As noted in another thread I will be changing most of the ball's (they are cheap) but the roller bearings will stay at least for now (as they don't seem as easy to source).

    Given my usual level of progress this may take till the spring (the shop gets very cold in the winter). Hopefully posting this will get me to work a bit faster. Also with parts being spread everywhere while being painted at the moment, I've got incentive so I don't have to step over everything to get around..

    The machine came to me mostly disassembled but the price was right and I believe all the parts are there. A few pictures of the "kit" it had been painted an awful (to me) light yellow;




    loose parts


    carriage and table


    A few pictures of the cleaning process, I'm not finding any problems or issues at this point. I'll take a few more pictures in the next day or two as most of the major parts have one or two coats of paint at this point.
    column off;


    column - tilt dovetails on only one side;


    Carriage with one of table V ways removed - the pic looks like there are marks on the bottom of the V way - there are non on the actual parts.


    Bottom of carriage showing scraped surface that roller way attaches to. Front of carriage is removable and located with dowel pins - this is where the only serial number I have found seems to be located.


    That's enough pictures for one message.
    Paul

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    More pictures - Most major parts have been painted (It has still been warm enough to do that). Still need to paint the top surface. You can see the bottom of the column in the background so I won't post a pic of just the column.


    The balance of the oil meter units are on their way so that will probably get updated this coming week.




    Top of base with everything cleared off - the right rear alignment block (these are adjusters to set the alignment of the center rails) seems to be rotated a bit. These look like blocks that are just pinned in place (from looking inside the base) not sure it being angled makes any difference.


    detail of column adjustment - partially removed

    more of the column adjuster


    Detail of the rear block that holds the table feed rod. Note that there are two scraped surfaces, but these face the back of the machine and don't seem to be of any use, unless they were used in set up.

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    Default A question and details on fine adjust.

    Does anyone have a source for colored plastic? The lens/filter/diffuser for the light is a dark green and has seen better days. Anyone know where I can source a piece of similar stock to make a replacement??? The closest I have been able to find is to get lighting "gel" material then get a piece of clear plastic and mount the gel behind it. Size is about 9.75 x 8" and ~.25 thick.


    Here is some detail on the fine adjust. Its an interesting puzzle to put this together as I got it in parts and did not see it assembled. The fine adjusters (the Y - carriage is shown, the function of both is the same) consist of worm gears that are engaged on the shafts by clutches. The threaded knob goes into the shaft and the point pushes out the pins engaging the clutch shoes. Seems like an elegant simple solution to me.

    Also shown is the crossfeed nut - the pins shown supply preload to eliminate backlash, the nut with the slots is located by a single screw in the nut, the instructions indicate to remove the screw and then increase the preload one or two notches if adjustment is necessary. Not sure which way the nut assembly points (adjuster forward or back) but I'll figure that out when I get to assembly. Oh I'm, missing one of the pins but they look to measure as standard dowel pins 3/16 x 9/16, something to add to a McMaster order, as I'm getting replacement gits oil covers anyway.


    Thanks
    Paul

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    You can easily get colored acrylic at a local plastics shop. TAP Plastics would a local source here on the West coast. Diffuse/translucent rather than transparent will be a bit harder. You can get diffusion sheets at the same places you'd get color gel film. Or you might hit one side of a rigid transparent sheet with an orbital sander or sand blaster. Ask a local plastics shop for a solution; they may have a clever idea or convenient access to just the right material.

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    Default Taft Peirce #1 refresh - lots of pictures

    That piece takes a beating from sparks. Mine was missing and I had a glass shop cut me a piece of laminated shatterproof glass for it for $20. The sparks are already taking a toll on the glass, I can't imagine plastic would last long at all.

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    good work , paint looks great. shoot some video of it going back together and running.

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    Thanks for the pointers, I'll see if I can find someplace local, I have found places online that have abrasion resistant polycarb and acrylic at lease some of which will cut to size at reasonable prices. May try glass in front as well.

    In the parts list I have it does list "roller way felt 13 X 1/8 x 3/4 (2)" part number 566 on page 3. So my question is how would this fit in? I have nothing to go by and it is not obvious how you would put in a piece of felt. Rustygreen - do you know if your grinder has felts?

    Looks like I need one of the set screws for the carriage way adjusters -3/8-24 X 1" oval point, McMaster has them in packages of 10. Anyone need some spares after I buy them?

    All oil meter units now replaced and lines cleared out (hey its progress). Need to clean and paint the main pump.
    Thanks
    Paul

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    Very nice stuff there, Paul.

    I was just getting ready to sell the Brown & Sharpe 510 to make room for the TP1
    and get to doing the same, but upon seeing this, I'll just wait until you are headed
    this way and pull all your plug wires once you're in town, until you can finish mine.

    Lemme know when you're ready...

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    Thanks Zahnrad - I don't plan on doing these for others as it takes me plenty long enough to do one, and then I have a milling machine that needs the same thing behind it. But my hope is that this may help someone in the future.

    I used to travel out to Milwaukee for vacations to skate on the 400M rink - before they enclosed it. Conditions used to be much more "interesting", one time a park bench blew across the ice during a meet.

    Anyway - so far no one with any info on the felts listed inn that parts manuals??

    Also, anyone following this have info on the age of the machine serial number 2592? Maybe I need to post that to general or the antique forum.

    Thanks
    Paul

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    My grinder didn't have any felts, that's a sharp eye on the parts list! I can't envision where they would have been, but I'll take a peek. The parts list definitely has other discrepancies and parts that don't apply to my grinder, probably from changes over the years.

    One thing that concerned me about the ways and oiling is that the ball ways don't get hit by the oiler. The manual says to put a light film of oil on the ball ways when reassembling, perhaps they don't want those flooded with oil? It really seems like you'd want some oil going through there to make sure any grit is washed down. I've periodically shot a little oil up in there, am I doing wrong? Perhaps they didn't want the complexity of a hose to bring oil up into the saddle, but that seems like an uncharacteristic shortcut!

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    Different makers had different policies about lubricating roller/ball bearing ways on grinders. The Cincinnati #2 is supposed to be run bone dry on the X way bearings. Their concern was that grit in oil makes superlative abrasive paste.

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    Serial # book says 1968 - 2511 and 1972 - 2664, so 2592 would be around 1970.

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    Thanks rlbleeker for dating the machine - roughly the same vintage as my 10ee.

    I replaced the bearings inf the X feed gear block (traverse gear bracket from manual ). On removing the gears it was interesting to find that they are 20deg PA and marked as such - the manual lists both 14.5 and 20 - my guess is later machines got the 20deg version.

    Anyway it feels like they did not get the gear spacing correct - pins and gears went together fine but they don't turn all that freely my speculation is the spacing is to close. I don't plan to do anything about it as it probably disappears when all the rest of the mass is in place.

    Also found that any wear on the roller ways exceeds my ability to measure it. First tried on a surface plate with a 10ths indicator. What I found there was the removable way is not flat and can deflect ~.0005 to .001 - so its slightly bowed (which does not matter on assembly as its bolted to a scraped surface every inch or two). I did not have a good way to clamp it down so I measured it with a micrometer and ball bearing to insure I could just indicate on the wear section - nothing I could measure with a 10ths reading mic. Finally inspected them under 10X magnification, and the "wear" area really just appears burnished.

    So at this point I believe the ways are fine for my purposes. If at some point in the future I find that they are causing an issue then I'll find someone that can dust off the surfaces on an appropriate grinder.

    As its warm here now I hope to get the carriage reassembled in the next couple days.

    Paul

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    Cleaned up the oil pump - its a Bijur. There were a couple thin fiber type washers in the filter assembly that did not come out cleanly, (one capturing the felt filter, but immediately above the is a metal plate followed by another washer) I may make up my own, not sure if they are actually needed.

    For oil the call out in the manual is "clean mineral oil of about SAE-30 viscosity", the closest I have is ISO 68 which the charts indicate is closer to 20 viscosity. The two I have are Moble DTE med-heavy and Vactra #2. I'm inclined to use the vactra #2 as my understanding is vactra no longer has the tackifiers (vacuoline 1400 series). Anyone with one of these - what are you using?

    Oh I do have a Taft Peirce can of oil which I figure has curiosity and historical interest but no idea what is actually in it at this point as it was not sealed. I'll snap a pic this weekend.

    Paul

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    I'm using Vactra #2 on a Mitsui 205. However, the central lube system on this machine does not feed the X-axis roller bearings. They are given a very light, stiff, greasing and left alone.

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    They're nice little grinders. Here's a picture of one I came across in July. It's located in Rockford, Il. I can give details if anyone is interested.

    img_20120703_144129.jpg

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    Like your mitsui the taft pierce does not have oil feed for x axis (balls in this case). The central oil system feeds the carriage roller bearings (2 feeds) carriage ball bearings (2 feeds), column ball bearings (2 feeds), colum gearing (2 feeds) and carriage nut (one feed). The manual states the following for the table (which is listed as monthly);
    The table should be lifted from the machine once per month, the ball tracks and balls cleaned and oiled, the drive gears cleaned and oiled, and and dust or dirt removed.

    I plan on using the same oil as the central system.
    Paul

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    So far looks great. Lets see some pics of it back together and some video of it running!!

    Nice tear down to clean.

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    Well its been fairly cold but have made some progress. The oiling system is all back together with new metering units and confirmed to work. Made one of the little stops for the roller ways that was missing and made the spacer for the X shaft bearing (stock bearing has an extended inner race 20x47x15.88 vs the more common 20x47x14, I used the more common bearing with a small spacer).
    Can of old original oil that came with the grinder, also you can see I've got the removable ways back in place.


    Bottom of carriage, X drive shaft in place


    And here is the current state - was going to put the carriage back on but the cold has rendered the engine hoist inoperative. I will need a warm day to proceed (or bringing the hoist cylinder up to the house to warm up in part)

    May be a few weeks for things to warm up a bit.
    Paul

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    Coming along nicely! I REALLY need to get off my ass and go pick up mine. I've been too lazy to make enough room and haven't even listed my B&S 510 for sale as yet... What's yours weigh, by the by? I should really prepare to unload it...


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