rustytool
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Location
- Moscow,Idaho,USA
Anybody know anything about this machine ?
Searching turns up nothing other than Mike Kandu has one. Greg.
Searching turns up nothing other than Mike Kandu has one. Greg.
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Taft Peirce Model 200
- Thread starter rustytool
- Start date
- Replies 31
- Views 9,429
EDM JOE
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2009
- Location
- Can't Shovel Sunshine, AZ
It's a surface grinder and you turn those handles to make the table go back and forth and the head move up and down. You'll need some electricity to make the wheel spin.
Taft Pierce made some nice stuff, so it may be worth it to recondition it and put it in service, if need be.
Taft Pierce made some nice stuff, so it may be worth it to recondition it and put it in service, if need be.
No real info, only seen pictures of a couple (one other is the Mike Kandu one you reference). They have the micro adjust (millionths) for column and table. My assumption is the basic mechanics are the same as the older ones. The one speculation is the column adjustment is separate from the carriage and so a possible improvement over the other design as there is the chance the column can move when adjusting the carriage.
I would put parts as totally unavailable as these seem far fewer than the other versions. That said if the ways are of the same/similar design as the others then they are removable and ground - meaning you could make replacements if necessarey (or remove and have reground if needed).
WAG on price maybe somwhere in the $1K range in the northeast (it looks to still be a totaly manual machine and grinders are fairly plentiful around here).
Paul
I would put parts as totally unavailable as these seem far fewer than the other versions. That said if the ways are of the same/similar design as the others then they are removable and ground - meaning you could make replacements if necessarey (or remove and have reground if needed).
WAG on price maybe somwhere in the $1K range in the northeast (it looks to still be a totaly manual machine and grinders are fairly plentiful around here).
Paul
aerodark
Titanium
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2008
- Location
- Eugene OR USA
Other than the replacement parts issue, I would guess that that is as fine a grinder made anywhere by anyone. Coupled with the Magnescale DRO, you should be able to produce very fine work on it. Maintenance on grinders, while imperative to long life, often goes undone in shops.
rustytool
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Location
- Moscow,Idaho,USA
Thanks Joe.I'm going to disassemble it to clean and inspect.
I thought a manual would be nice. But there's nothing out there. Not even a photo of one in a sales catalog.
Curious as to what years they made the 200.
The #1 was made into the 70's. Then came the 100. Taft Peirce dissolved in October of 1995.
Could they have just started making them right at the end and never published a manual ?
aerodark
Titanium
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2008
- Location
- Eugene OR USA
Taft Peirce (or what remained) was taken over by Suburban Tool. You may glean some info by calling the helpful folks there.
This was posted a few years ago for the Model 1:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...s/taft-peirce-model-1-surface-grinder-224825/
This was posted a few years ago for the Model 1:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...s/taft-peirce-model-1-surface-grinder-224825/
rustytool
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Location
- Moscow,Idaho,USA
Aerodark, A few days ago I contacted Suburban who knew nothing but referred me to LeBlond who absorbed KO Lee who absorbed Taft Peirce but they knew nothing either. I even contacted Sopko who also never heard of the model 200.
No big deal as it's not a real complicated piece of machinery but I like history and am amazed at the lack of documentation. Greg.
No big deal as it's not a real complicated piece of machinery but I like history and am amazed at the lack of documentation. Greg.
rustytool
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Location
- Moscow,Idaho,USA
Yanked off the table and found lots of grit as I expected but I don't think it would have been as bad if the shop using it had been informed of the development of a new fangled invention called the vacuum cleaner.
Though they added some "improvements" to keep the grit from getting to the table ways.
A rubber guard was bolted to the back of the table. On the front of the table they bolted a piece of square stock to which was mounted a rubber guard.
That assembly rode on top of a piece of aluminum square stock that was bolted to the top of the carriage.
Underneath the table, between the side walls and the ways they used hot melt glue to attach strips of green scotch brite. Worked really well but scotch brite ?
Though they added some "improvements" to keep the grit from getting to the table ways.
A rubber guard was bolted to the back of the table. On the front of the table they bolted a piece of square stock to which was mounted a rubber guard.
That assembly rode on top of a piece of aluminum square stock that was bolted to the top of the carriage.
Underneath the table, between the side walls and the ways they used hot melt glue to attach strips of green scotch brite. Worked really well but scotch brite ?
Attachments
aerodark
Titanium
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2008
- Location
- Eugene OR USA
I would be interested to know how much (if available) those replaceable ways cost per set. I am awaiting delivery of a 1979 Mitsui 6 x 12 with the same arrangement. Balls/cages were $380 and a replacement set of ways is about $2500. Word has it that way replacement is rarely called for. Tough to tell from the pics but it looks like the ways on your machine are in good shape.
I would find some filter media to replace that scotchbrite with. It should not be abrasive. The Mitsui manual calls for Mobil number 2 grease for the balls on the table of my machine. I bought Mobil 1 synthetic for this area. In what condition did you find the ballway/ball interface?
The pictures you posted look like you are doing the same thing as I plan: 4x4 posts under the roof trusses lifting about 1/16 of an inch, beam spanning them with relief in the center to clear the unsupported trusses, chain hoist to lift the machine for installing the leveling screws I made up yesterday, and table removal and replacement. Do you plan on using coolant on this machine?
I would find some filter media to replace that scotchbrite with. It should not be abrasive. The Mitsui manual calls for Mobil number 2 grease for the balls on the table of my machine. I bought Mobil 1 synthetic for this area. In what condition did you find the ballway/ball interface?
The pictures you posted look like you are doing the same thing as I plan: 4x4 posts under the roof trusses lifting about 1/16 of an inch, beam spanning them with relief in the center to clear the unsupported trusses, chain hoist to lift the machine for installing the leveling screws I made up yesterday, and table removal and replacement. Do you plan on using coolant on this machine?
New ways for the taft would be custom as the remnants of the company don't exist any more. But I can't see needing to completly replace anyway. If there is pitting or enough wear to measure you could send them to a grind shop that has a machine with enough travel to regrind the wear surfaces to new (probably only a couple .001).
Looks like the basic design is the same as the #1 and 100 - if you have not seen it look at my thread on freshening a TP, I put in lots of pics.
I replaced all the balls on my machine - bought them from VXB, got the high precision versions, they are cheap no where near $380. If you need new guides you are probably on your own.
I never found a replacemnt source for the rollers on the carriage - just reused what I had.
Paul
A bit more looking - is the table drive cable? the #1 and 100 are a gear rack. yes get rid of the scotch brite, probably need nothing in that area if the shields on the front and rear are there - and you periodically do maintanance (remove an oil table ways - the #1 and 100 do not have a way to get oil to the table ways)
Looks like the basic design is the same as the #1 and 100 - if you have not seen it look at my thread on freshening a TP, I put in lots of pics.
I replaced all the balls on my machine - bought them from VXB, got the high precision versions, they are cheap no where near $380. If you need new guides you are probably on your own.
I never found a replacemnt source for the rollers on the carriage - just reused what I had.
Paul
A bit more looking - is the table drive cable? the #1 and 100 are a gear rack. yes get rid of the scotch brite, probably need nothing in that area if the shields on the front and rear are there - and you periodically do maintanance (remove an oil table ways - the #1 and 100 do not have a way to get oil to the table ways)
rustytool
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Location
- Moscow,Idaho,USA
Aerodark, I'm sure ways are not available for the Taft grinders.
The ways and balls are to my untrained eye in exceptionally good condition. No marks that I can see or feel.
I'm sure there was no wiper material originally let alone Scotch Brite but it looks like a good idea and may replace it with felt.
My lifting device is a rolling gantry crane I made.
I have thought about adding a coolant system and will be looking into that. Greg.
The ways and balls are to my untrained eye in exceptionally good condition. No marks that I can see or feel.
I'm sure there was no wiper material originally let alone Scotch Brite but it looks like a good idea and may replace it with felt.
My lifting device is a rolling gantry crane I made.
I have thought about adding a coolant system and will be looking into that. Greg.
Attachments
rustytool
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Location
- Moscow,Idaho,USA
Paul, the table is driven with .015 x 1/2 feeler stock. Never seen that before.
I'll post pictures of that system as I disassemble it.
I have read your thread on your rebuild. Lots of good pics and info, thank you, Greg.
I'll post pictures of that system as I disassemble it.
I have read your thread on your rebuild. Lots of good pics and info, thank you, Greg.
rustytool
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Location
- Moscow,Idaho,USA
Removed and disassembled the table and carriage hand wheels.
The table hand wheel shaft has a gear which engages the internal gear teeth of a heavy wheel. The feeler gage straps are screwed to this wheel and to the ends of the table.
The carriage hand wheel is keyed to a shaft that is connected to the screw with a coupler.
Removed the electrical box to see what was living behind there.
Removed the carriage. I used the mystery threaded hole that was mentioned in Pauls thread to attach a 1/2-13 eye bolt for lifting.
It was balanced left to right but needed some straps to keep the back end from dropping.
That carriage is HEAVY. But then again the whole machine is heavy. When it was shipped the trucking company weighed it and it came in at 2960 lbs. Greg.
The table hand wheel shaft has a gear which engages the internal gear teeth of a heavy wheel. The feeler gage straps are screwed to this wheel and to the ends of the table.
The carriage hand wheel is keyed to a shaft that is connected to the screw with a coupler.
Removed the electrical box to see what was living behind there.
Removed the carriage. I used the mystery threaded hole that was mentioned in Pauls thread to attach a 1/2-13 eye bolt for lifting.
It was balanced left to right but needed some straps to keep the back end from dropping.
That carriage is HEAVY. But then again the whole machine is heavy. When it was shipped the trucking company weighed it and it came in at 2960 lbs. Greg.
Attachments
Intriguing - right and left carriage ways are different lengths. They went to two groups of balls on each side. On the 1 and 100 they used roller bearings for the vert load and the alignment can be adjusted via another set of ball bearing ways in the center - looks like they did away with that. Is there a mechanism for squaring the carriage on the bottom of the carriage? Method for eliminating play in the carriage lead screw looks basically identical as do the micro adjusters.
How many revs of the handle for a table traverse (looks like a significant gear reduction).
Nice job with the pictures.
Paul
Does the spindle tilt on these or is it fixed?
How many revs of the handle for a table traverse (looks like a significant gear reduction).
Nice job with the pictures.
Paul
Does the spindle tilt on these or is it fixed?
rustytool
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Location
- Moscow,Idaho,USA
Paul, there is no carriage squaring adjustment. It's set up just like the table ways. Each side of the carriage has 2 groups of 10 balls for a total of 40 balls for the carriage. While the table has 2 groups of 9 balls on each side for a total of 36 balls for the table.
The different way lengths are a result of the cut out for the column hand wheel. Since it is on the front of the base instead of out to the side like on a Mitsui. When the carriage is out toward the operator the cut out needs to be there so you can still operate the column hand wheel.
I didn't operate things anymore than I had to for fear of grinding in grit to the ways but I think it took about 3 or 4 revolutions of the hand wheel for a full traverse of the table. Greg.
The spindle does tilt. I haven't investigated it closely but there doesn't seem to be a hand crank mechanism.
The different way lengths are a result of the cut out for the column hand wheel. Since it is on the front of the base instead of out to the side like on a Mitsui. When the carriage is out toward the operator the cut out needs to be there so you can still operate the column hand wheel.
I didn't operate things anymore than I had to for fear of grinding in grit to the ways but I think it took about 3 or 4 revolutions of the hand wheel for a full traverse of the table. Greg.
The spindle does tilt. I haven't investigated it closely but there doesn't seem to be a hand crank mechanism.
rustytool
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Location
- Moscow,Idaho,USA
Removed the column telescoping way covers.
Removed the motor and spindle. the motor is a 2 HP Baldor 208-230/460.
It's coupled to the spindle with a Rotex coupling.
Removed the castings that hold the spindle to the column.
And also a shot of the underside of the carriage. Greg.
Removed the motor and spindle. the motor is a 2 HP Baldor 208-230/460.
It's coupled to the spindle with a Rotex coupling.
Removed the castings that hold the spindle to the column.
And also a shot of the underside of the carriage. Greg.
Attachments
rustytool
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Location
- Moscow,Idaho,USA
aerodark
Titanium
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2008
- Location
- Eugene OR USA
We're having fun NOW!
aerodark
Titanium
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2008
- Location
- Eugene OR USA
Say, RT,
What are you using to clean up with? I start with a vacuum, then use kerosene to loosen and wipe up the stuff that is stuck. It is a slow, filthy process.
What are you using to clean up with? I start with a vacuum, then use kerosene to loosen and wipe up the stuff that is stuck. It is a slow, filthy process.
rustytool
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Location
- Moscow,Idaho,USA
Exactly, Vacuum, then kerosene with small stainless brush or nylon toothbrush or green or grey or white scotch brite depending whether the gunk is on bare metal, a precision surface or paint. Simple green or a citrus cleaner works good but can be harsh on painted surfaces.
I've found that for a light degreasing Windex works good. Also household ammonia works good on grease. I've even made up my own mixture of ammonia and alcohol which is kind of like Windex. But I think kerosene is probably best because it wont damage any metal surfaces like the other cleaners might. WD-40, which is mainly kerosene works good in aerosol to blast the grease out of screw threads and tight spots.
And here is the secret ingredient that will remove all the grime, ELBOW GREASE ! And time, takes forever. Not just the big parts but every last nut, bolt, washer, etc. I keep a jar of kerosene that I drop all the little parts in to soak. Then you have to put the parts into marked baggies and find a place for everything until it goes back together. It's a lot of work but rewarding in the end, Greg.
I've found that for a light degreasing Windex works good. Also household ammonia works good on grease. I've even made up my own mixture of ammonia and alcohol which is kind of like Windex. But I think kerosene is probably best because it wont damage any metal surfaces like the other cleaners might. WD-40, which is mainly kerosene works good in aerosol to blast the grease out of screw threads and tight spots.
And here is the secret ingredient that will remove all the grime, ELBOW GREASE ! And time, takes forever. Not just the big parts but every last nut, bolt, washer, etc. I keep a jar of kerosene that I drop all the little parts in to soak. Then you have to put the parts into marked baggies and find a place for everything until it goes back together. It's a lot of work but rewarding in the end, Greg.
