What's new
What's new

Took a punt on a J & S 540P at auction

DTBob

Plastic
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Location
Sydney, Australia
Hi, I took a punt on a J & S 540P at an online auction. $500 (Australian). I did get to have a quick inspection before the auction. Table and cross slides appeared OK - still see scraping marks at least and no visible galling. I did not think to check the spindle type. It does have an oiler at the top of the tower which I've not seen on others or in pictures. Hydraulic oil looked OK and level was fine. The machinist there assured me it used to work fine, but the belt was broken. Well the belt looked fine to me, but there was about 1/8 th turn off easier turning of the wheel/spindle, turning the belt, and then I could feel more resistance - feels like a key on the spindle motor shaft may have a problem but I am not familiar with those parts. Coolant is a cheapo plastic container and pump.

The serial number - ends in 57.

Does anyone know roughly what year this would be?

And I am after a manual or any other doco.

Cheers

J AND S 540P.jpg
 
Thats got a ball bearing work head, plane spindle has a bit on top. Date wise my motors were dated 1969 and i have the same oiler on the column, the oiler on mine worked fine but the tubes were perished - needed changesing and its just std 4mm nylon pnumatic tubing.

You also have powered rise and fall, date wise based on the quirks - others i have seen, i would guess yours is a few years newer than mine, but only a few, best guess early seventies. Because of the constant table lube supply from the hydraulics though J&S 540's wear really well unlike a lot of grinders, the constant supply keeps grit flushed out and constantly lubes em so they wear at a fraction of the speed of a lot of the other grinder brands - styles out there.
 
Update - From the serial number J & S tell me the machine was built in 1978.

Looking at the photo of the spindle belt ... IMG_5404.jpg... can someone tell me if this looks right - I don't think so myself. It looks like a belt that has all the rubber worn off. And there is what appears to be a course grit friction material stuck to both pulleys. Is this usual with a 540?
Thanks
 
My J&S 540 from 1986 was the same. The pulleys are crowned and have a metal surface. Throw away the belt and use acetone, elbow grease and a sharp brass scraper to take off all the goo and rubber from the pulleys. This is hard work and takes the best part of an hour. Be patient and do not mess up the pulleys, they balanced to a gnat's eyelash. For this reason (maintaining the balance) I suggest that you don't remove the pulley, although that would make it a lot easier to access and clean.

You can order a new belt from Jubilee or Andmar in the UK. Cost is 25 or 30 pounds.

If you read this long thread you can learn something about my pulley/belt story. Post #52 in that thread has photos of the pulley and dead old belt that look a lot like yours.

PS: in my machine there is an oil pump that drips lubricating oil onto the vertical axis lead screw. On my machine the copper pipe that directs the oil had come loose and was getting oil onto the belt/pulley area. So that's probably one of the reasons that the rubber had worked its way off the belt and welded/adhered itself to the pulleys.

Here is a photo of the lower pulley (after cleanup!) and the new belt. You can see the copper pipe in the foreground (now pointing the right way):

attachment.php


Cheers,
Bruce
 
Last edited:
LOL mine despite being a few years older was just the same, i got lucky though, the belt had failed and the previous owner had clearly replaced it, just left me 95% of the bits of belt in situe and the same crap on the pulleys. Thoes pulleys are things of beuty once cleaned up. The belt its self is just a std flat belt and can be got from most decent belt suppliers, though its probably a made to measure item. Don't go too mad on the tension either.

Other thing to check is the 4 rubber anti vibration mounts the motors hung off, they perish and fail, same goes for the 3 of the same bit the pump hangs on above the hydraulic tank in the base.
 
Maybe your manual does, but mine does not!! Mines a manual at least as old or older than my grinder though!
 
My J&S 540 from 1986 was the same. The pulleys are crowned and have a metal surface. Throw away the belt and use acetone, elbow grease and a sharp brass scraper to take off all the goo and rubber from the pulleys. This is hard work and takes the best part of an hour. Be patient and do not mess up the pulleys, they balanced to a gnat's eyelash. For this reason (maintaining the balance) I suggest that you don't remove the pulley, although that would make it a lot easier to access and clean.

You can order a new belt from Jubilee or Andmar in the UK. Cost is 25 or 30 pounds.

If you read this long thread you can learn something about my pulley/belt story. Post #52 in that thread has photos of the pulley and dead old belt that look a lot like yours.

PS: in my machine there is an oil pump that drips lubricating oil onto the vertical axis lead screw. On my machine the copper pipe that directs the oil had come loose and was getting oil onto the belt/pulley area. So that's probably one of the reasons that the rubber had worked its way off the belt and welded/adhered itself to the pulleys.

Here is a photo of the lower pulley (after cleanup!) and the new belt. You can see the copper pipe in the foreground (now pointing the right way):

attachment.php


Cheers,
Bruce

Thanks Bruce. Just as I suspected. I will read through your thread. The copper drip line on mine is loose too.
Bob
 
LOL mine despite being a few years older was just the same, i got lucky though, the belt had failed and the previous owner had clearly replaced it, just left me 95% of the bits of belt in situe and the same crap on the pulleys. Thoes pulleys are things of beuty once cleaned up. The belt its self is just a std flat belt and can be got from most decent belt suppliers, though its probably a made to measure item. Don't go too mad on the tension either.

Other thing to check is the 4 rubber anti vibration mounts the motors hung off, they perish and fail, same goes for the 3 of the same bit the pump hangs on above the hydraulic tank in the base.

Thanks Adam, The spindle motor mounts are intact but have sagged a lot so I will replace them. The hydraulic motor mounts look OK but will do them anyway.
Cheers, Bob
 
I've removed the table, but can I have some direction on removing the cross saddle please. After removing the three hydraulic hoses, if I undo the cross feed nut from the base, can I lift the whole saddle from the machine with the valve block and cover in one piece? I've removed the four screws that hold the nut but it's not budging. It seems there may be some pins there.
Thanks Bob
 
Never took the saddle of mine, but would expect it to be pinned. A Look in the parts book should answer that one.

Worth adding theres a pair of plates that pivot around and cover the slots the hoses run through into the base, one of mine was missing and there was a hell of a lot of grit + crap + swarf that had got in there from it, so make sure there in tact.
 
Never took the saddle of mine, but would expect it to be pinned. A Look in the parts book should answer that one.

Worth adding theres a pair of plates that pivot around and cover the slots the hoses run through into the base, one of mine was missing and there was a hell of a lot of grit + crap + swarf that had got in there from it, so make sure there in tact.

Thanks Adam
Got it off. There were indeed two pins locating the cross feed nut to the base. Plus the oil feed pipe screwed through the base to the nut. The pins don't appear on the parts list I have.
 
I removed the cross feed screw and nut. Both extremely worn. Screw threads in the middle of the screw are about half thickness, and nut threads are almost zero - wafer thin. Vertical screw and nut is probably about the same - vertical backlash is ~2.2mm - spec is below 1 mm (40 thou). Well if nothing else I am learning how to evaluate a 540 :)

IMG_5405.jpg

I'm thinking that rather than spending the 600 British quid on a new cross feed screw and nut (anyone know where to get one cheaper than that) - not to mention vertical screw and nut, I will replace both cross feed and vertical screws/nuts with Chinese ball screws (SFU2510 and SFU2505 respectively). Has anyone done this or got any comments? The cost will be <$200 plus a bit of work on the lathe and mill.
Any ideas/comments appreciated.
Bob
 
I removed the cross feed screw and nut. Both extremely worn. Screw threads in the middle of the screw are about half thickness, and nut threads are almost zero - wafer thin. Vertical screw and nut is probably about the same - vertical backlash is ~2.2mm - spec is below 1 mm (40 thou). Well if nothing else I am learning how to evaluate a 540 :)

View attachment 207699

I'm thinking that rather than spending the 600 British quid on a new cross feed screw and nut (anyone know where to get one cheaper than that) - not to mention vertical screw and nut, I will replace both cross feed and vertical screws/nuts with Chinese ball screws (SFU2510 and SFU2505 respectively). Has anyone done this or got any comments? The cost will be <$200 plus a bit of work on the lathe and mill.
Any ideas/comments appreciated.
Bob

If you're replacing the vertical screw you'll likely need some kind of friction clamp on it.
There's so little friction on a ball screw that there's a good chance it'll sink down on you.
 
If you're replacing the vertical screw you'll likely need some kind of friction clamp on it.
There's so little friction on a ball screw that there's a good chance it'll sink down on you.

I would think that because the vertical screw is rotated by a worm screw that it would be OK, but I will keep that in mind. Thanks.
 








 
Back
Top