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  1. #61
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    As I thought. Still but the basics with no control, verification, nor accuracy levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    As I thought. Still but the basics with no control, verification, nor accuracy levels.
    I take it you're looking for verification of the involute profile generated by the software, correct?

    Anyhow, by the time the 3d printer spits out the materials, does it even matter? you are going to have to measure the part produced anyway and that will lead you down a dozen rabbit holes.

    I forget who it was, but they make about a 5 to 7 inch diameter plastic gear to mesh with a 1 inch diameter aluminum gear, about an inch thick.. to shove about 20 hp peak, on the order of 6 hp continuous from an outrunner motor to drive the props on an RC helo with, I think it was about 1 meter diameter blades. due to the difference in material stiffness they had to make their own software, and build their own gear cutters in order to figure out exactly where to add material and where to remove it from the plastic gear so that the friction was a minimum. helix angle was found to be optimal at just 9.4 degrees iirc.


    as for my PLA plastic back gear, it holds up to 75 foot pounds of torque. i don't think the cast iron would have, and the flexibility of the plastic spreads the load across two teeth. (this is mentioned in the machinery handbook regarding phenolic gears.. way back in the 50's)


    You may have better fortune making a gear via the methods you desire (plastic printed, laser sintered, etc) , meshing it with a legitimately generated known precision gear and hooking up high bandwidth strain gauges to the shaft and measuring the vibration produced, rather than trying to measure the geometry of the gear by physical measurement. If the gears are connected via thick shafts to say, 100 pound flywheels, you should be able to reduce the noise floor to arbitrarily low levels. use plain bearings of course, and find some engineers who can do the math for you.

    one of those say 18 bit absolute rotary encoder will be needed on the shaft to synchronize the torque ripple to the tooth contact area and also help you map out the absolute position error of each tooth.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by johansen View Post
    I take it you're looking for verification of the involute profile generated by the software, correct?

    Anyhow, by the time the 3d printer spits out the materials, does it even matter? you are going to have to measure the part produced anyway and that will lead you down a dozen rabbit holes.
    Yea... it'd be nice to verify before you spent $xxx in material and xxx-hours of manufacturing time on a product that never had a chance to succeed... do you never verify your inputs? One way to approach a dozen rabbit holes is eliminate the ones that don't apply. It's easier to figure out if the inputs were bad by verifying the inputs, rather than verifying EVERY OTHER POSSIBLE avenue via the process-of-elimination.
    Quote Originally Posted by johansen View Post
    ..
    Your back gear example is pretty neat. Glad it works out. I do like experiments like this. I never knew about there being a track record of designing gears to deliberately flex and distribute contact load more... I might have to look that up at lunch time. That's nifty. I don't do much professionally with gearmaking. Just not my wheelhouse. But it is neat.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    As I thought. Still but the basics with no control, verification, nor accuracy levels.

    Actually there is all of those features to some extent, if you look closely (there are dialogues and options not visible in just those two screenshots). Combined with industry technical literature and knowhow of gearmaking, this is pretty much as good as it gets. there may be some suites in ProE or Catia or NX etc for better gearmaking but that's for engineers who never cut, assemble or sell parts into physical service. Inventor suits us best since we do both a great deal of engineering and manufacture on a daily basis. We can design something, cut it, assemble it, test it, revise, and approve it in a single days work oftentimes.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by apoc_101 View Post
    Actually there is all of those features to some extent, if you look closely (there are dialogues and options not visible in just those two screenshots). Combined with industry technical literature and knowhow of gearmaking, this is pretty much as good as it gets. there may be some suites in ProE or Catia or NX etc for better gearmaking but that's for engineers who never cut, assemble or sell parts into physical service. Inventor suits us best since we do both a great deal of engineering and manufacture on a daily basis. We can design something, cut it, assemble it, test it, revise, and approve it in a single days work oftentimes.
    You and I have decidedly different ideas of what "knowhow of gearmaking" and professional are. Understand that my next statement is not a swipe at you. The screen you showed is what I consider a rather anemic and novice level set of constraints for the construction of a gear or set. Additionally, those are relegated to only the most basic of standard gear tooth dimensions and forms. It is little more than a GUI set of the basic rules of Involute construction. ... Very little more...

    Attached is what I would consider a well rounded set of considerations and inputs. You will note that every single one is able to be configured as the engineer/designer requires. It also represents but one of the tools used.

    But to get back to your statement - No. What you have shown does not actually provide for these things. In any extent. But, if I have missed it, point it out to me. Because for Gear Making, despite what you assert that is not "as good as it gets." That is more as basic as it gets.

    If that is all your needs require, wonderful. However, there's a much larger, more involved world out there that those tools you have presented will not satisfy.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails capture1.jpg   capture2.jpg   capture3.jpg   capture4.jpg  

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  7. #66
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    you're a little bit crazy about gears eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by apoc_101 View Post
    you're a little bit crazy about gears eh?
    Did you ever type his screen name into Google Translate?


    But he's right. There's a lot more to a gear when it's a power drive component at very high RPM, running 24/7, with no downtime allowed except for maybe once annually for P.M. - at great expense, when compared to, say, a gear driving a chain sprocket one-shift a day, no weekends, moving a conveyor 10 feet with a 50 pound max load on the table, which can get fixed any time since people can still just manually slide/throw it down the table while it's down.

    "Over engineered" for one situation is the "barely passing muster through the skin of my teeth" in another. I just know enough to know what I don't know.

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  10. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by apoc_101 View Post
    you're a little bit crazy about gears eh?
    One could say that... One could say that I'm a Gearhead. And I am paid to be. We make thousands of gears a year, for mission critical applications that literally depend on those gears. From vehicles, to hand tools, to surgical, nuke research, and museums. Like the web site says, " From the Root to the Addendum and the Involute in between. " It is rare that we are called upon to make such low quality gears as were being discussed before you got here, but as I am very familiar with additive processes as well ( and have made my fair share of additive manufacturing gears, too ) I was involved in the discussion in that regard. So you will understand if I don't just roll over and accept your assertions as gospel because they work for your limited requirements. Once you have been around the forum long enough you will understand better why.

    So don't get me wrong. I am actually happy to find that this even exists for Inventor. And I am happy that you can ( and do ) use it to your own ends. I simply disagree with the assertions that you have made regarding it.

    Cheers.

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  12. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNieman View Post
    Did you ever type his screen name into Google Translate?
    LOL. Well done, Sir.

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    Fair enough! I figured you knew what you're talking about. I've never cut the kind of gears you do, only the types of pulleys and toothed components that can be cut on mill-turn machines (never used a gear cutting machine but I'm remotely familiar with the kind of critical tolerances at work). my experience is limited to commercial and military aerospace/commercial vehicles/med-dental/optics-electronics so while I share the dedication to precision, I really don't know how crazy it really gets with gears



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