3D printed metal gun

I don't need to philosophize about this because I am confident that others will do it for me. First gun all-3D-printed gun created

Bill

Cool. Now print me an MG-42.

Laser sintering will finally make 3D printing useful, but they've got a lot of details to work out. It can only shoot 50 rounds? But still, that's light years better than the plastic zip gun the kid in Austin printed.

I wonder what the print time is? The DMLS videos on Youtube talk about print times of several days.

I get the awful feeling that the reality of this sort of thing will be twisted and turned and manipulated by Governments and lead to gun rights being further eroded

I think the question we all have to ask ourselves is: "what happens when the reporters learn what a milling machine can do?"

The general folks are all giddy about this because it plays into their star trek fantasy.
Governments are certainly getting their panties in a bunch over the idea of plastic guns, uk had some real funny ones lately...



Flying car, print, NOW, said some guy in 1970.

meanwhile I still don't know if I'm supposed to eat margarine or butter.

pvsora said:

I think the question we all have to ask ourselves is: "what happens when the reporters learn what a milling machine can do?"

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Sadly they wouldn't care, dont you know the rapid prototyper is 2 weeks away from being a Star Trek replicator, just add carbon. I dont give a hoot about a 1911 that hasn't been tested the same as conventionally made ones for the US military. I would be absolutely shocked if that gun passed those tests.

Cold fusion was another one that was just around the corner, somehow we got sidetracked on science making sure a 90 year old man can still get a hard-on

lazlo said:

Laser sintering will finally make 3D printing useful, but they've got a lot of details to work out. It can only shoot 50 rounds? But still, that's light years better than the plastic zip gun the kid in Austin printed.

I wonder what the print time is? The DMLS videos on Youtube talk about print times of several days.

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FINALLY!!! Someone who focuses on the performance of the part and machine rather then just the shape and how "cool" it works.

SND said:

meanwhile I still don't know if I'm supposed to eat margarine or butter.

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Butter, I can't believe margarine still exists much less people are stupid enough to buy it.

Cole2534 said:

Cool. Now print me an MG-42.

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Got enthralled with MG-42 after playing countless hours of a WW2 FPS game.

First, it can fire 50 rounds and "be ready for more."

I doubt it will hold up to military acceptance tests, but that is not the point. Someone can make a gun appear out of nowhere, use it for a crime, then destroy it with no tracks.

Re what a mill can do, I know lots of people who could make a 1911, a few who could make an MG42 from scratch and one about 300 miles west of here who could make a fully functional 1911 that could fit inside a Patek Phillipe watch case. The point is that these require considerable expertise, as does 3D printing a metal gun. The people who made this one are not going in the business of supplying them to holdup men. The question is whether this technology will come down to something some cretin with a grudge against humanity can download the plans on the net and make his own. I remember when a computer was a big room full of 6SN7 tubes with a massive cooling system and still really couldn't do that much. Now 8 year olds carry far more computing power around for entertainment. Of course, I also remember when everyone was going to have a personal helicopter and there would be streams of them across the sky. One happened, the other didn't. I think that cheap and simple metal 3D printers are within the realm of possibility.

Bill

9100 said:

First, it can fire 50 rounds and "be ready for more."

I doubt it will hold up to military acceptance tests, but that is not the point. Someone can make a gun appear out of nowhere, use it for a crime, then destroy it with no tracks. The question is whether this technology will come down to something some cretin with a grudge against humanity can download the plans on the net and make his own.

Bill

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Round count is 600 now, and they've continued to ignore questions of if these guns have fired a proof load, and on the pistols estimated unit cost. If they can get 50000 rounds out of that thing they may be onto something.

In all seriousness, if a man wants a gun he's going to get one, I dont care where he is in the world (maybe its tough to get one in Antartica). With todays commodity costs the powder metal is going to be outside the realm of a crazy homeless mans finances for a while, and anyone who can afford the metal, would have been able to buy a gun by whatever means anyways. I love media is worrying about people cooking guns out of thin air, while the 2 biggest causes of violence which are infecting the developed world are largely ignored, these being mental illness and a depressed economy. Way scarier to deal with those though

How hard is it for a kid to buy dope nowadays? If illegal dope is available for purchase, guns aren't far behind, whos going to bother with a 3D printer?

The rapid prototype machines have been around for decades.....................and they've been very stagnant compared to the advances in CAD/CAM technology. How long did it take for NCs to be common in machine shops since their inception? Maybe 20-30 years I'd wager? Thats about how long 3D printers have been around and they dont have much to show for it. Internet, NC tools, personal electronic devices and all these other things have taken about 20-30 years to drastically change our lives............... If rapid prototyping is going to become a household appliance, it better come up with something of drastically better quality.

There would have to be some drastic leaps in materials science and this is orders of magnitude more expensive compared to rapid prototypes VapourWare/drum banging before a household rapid prototyper that could produce repeatable quality metal products becomes feasable.

For your consideration:
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1269451/3d-printing-gimmick-says-foxconn-boss

So just to play devils advocate here.

There will always be a place for manual machine tools. Being able to walk up, slap in a piece of metal and make something instantly with no programing, etc will always have a place in my opinion.

BUT, if it's 20 years from now and this technology has finally matured why would anyone ever buy a CNC machine again? I mean, the programming would be largely the same with obvious changes to suit the technology used. But you would have no scrap, no setup time, no tooling, no massive moving wear components, etc.

I am sure with mass production manufacturers driving the cost down trying to squeeze every penny out of their margins they would happily drive this technology into the marketplace regardless of its uses for "evil". Money talks.

So..people will still be buying vintage manual machines (100 year old Cincinnati and K&T's), but there will be about 50 years of CNC machines grinding out their lives until they scrap them. Then will come the world of "print" machinists. They will wonder what a 'chip' is and why you would ever need to get dirty to make metal components.

Hickstick, thanks for the link. I like to see what others are doing that isn't on local news.

G. Harry Stine once pointed out that when the second amendment was written there was de facto gun control. You had to scrub the caked fouling out of the barrel or the balls would no longer fit, keep the touch hole clear, the flint sharp and properly positioned, and oil the action to keep it from rusting up. Percussion caps and Minié balls that were loose enough to drop down a fouled bore made things easier, contributing to the greater rate of fire and accuracy that helped produce the enormous death toll of the Civil War. Self contained ammunition, smokeless powder, and non corrosive primers simplified things further, and the AK47 almost completely removed the IQ test that once came with firearms. When I was a teenager, just after the last ice age, the violence in some areas of our cities was almost entirely stabbings and more primitive means of assault. The quality of the guns used in murders and collected by police was extremely low. Remember zip guns? Now they have access to modern firearms that any idiot can use, so the rate of gun violence has increased. A black friend had a house on North Jefferson Ave. in St. Louis, in the middle of the predominately black area. He recently moved to Waterloo IL. When I asked why, he said they just got fed up with the drive bys.

Politicians seem to finally be trying to go after the causes of the violence instead of just depriving them of the implements. I, and most of my friends have guns but don't shoot people- because we don't want to shoot people. The possible penalties are in the equation, but only in a theoretical sense because we are not going to shoot anyone without a very strong reason and a self defense plea is almost automatic.

We have the ability to build perfect crystal lattices like flawless artificial diamonds right now. That is vapor deposition, but similar things can be done electrolytically and by other techniques. There is nothing in the basic rules to preclude building up materials atom by atom with different ones positioned to control slip planes, perfect metallurgy. Suppose those techniques get combined with 3D printing. We could generate a part with maximum strength and wear qualities. Whether that could develop into home duplicators or not is an open question. My natural reaction is not for a long time, if ever, but I am not counting it out.

Bill

I saw my first 3D printed part almost 20 years ago. About 8 years ago, I saw the powdered metal being used. Those parts were very crude. What the article doesn't tell you: What was the cost of the technology? How long did the printing take? Did the gun go together without hand fitting?

The last one, I seriously doubt. The printers that I've seen still don't have that good a resolution, but they're getting there. The other thing the press doesn't tell you is that you need a good solid model drawing. Yes, somebody made a gun. Does that mean that anybody can do it?

I'm more nervous about IEDs, and not being able to find ammo than I am printed guns
JR

I just read the article on Solid Concepts' web page, and they're not trying to fan the flames like Cody Wilson was. In fact, I think they're trying to debunk the idea that the best you can do with 3D printing is make nylon Yoda heads and plastic zip guns:

World?s First 3D Printed Metal Gun - Solid Concepts Blog

“It’s a common misconception that laser sintering isn’t accurate or strong enough, and we’re working to change people’s perspective.”

The "50 rounds comment" in the OP's article was somewhat misquoted -- the Solid Concepts guys had fired 50 rounds through the gun at that point. They're up to 500 rounds so far. By the way, the Austin-area shooters will recognize the range

They are still leaving out some details that I would find interesting. Mainly, were ALL the parts made on the 3D printer including the barrel, extractor, and firing pin? Then there is the performance/longevity of the gun. Is it noticeably degrading as it's being shot and how about the accuracy, function, and lockup?

I understand that this is basically a "proof of concept" but to me these issues are also of importance. Yes, you can print out a gun with a very expensive printer and thousands of dollars in raw materials but without the same longevity and performance of a regularly produced gun it still has a long, long way to go.

-Ron

MetalCarnage said:

They are still leaving out some details that I would find interesting. Mainly, were ALL the parts made on the 3D printer including the barrel, extractor, and firing pin? Then there is the performance/longevity of the gun. Is it noticeably degrading as it's being shot and how about the accuracy, function, and lockup?

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Agree on all counts Ron. The barrel was actually printed, including the rifling

The sear spring and firing pin are printed from Invar (?), but if I'm reading their blog correctly, the coil springs (mainspring, recoil spring and firing pin spring) are not printed.

If you watch the video, the slide hangs up on each shot, but it does cycle. But you got to give the guys some slack -- they're a high-end prototyping shop, not gunsmiths

Here's the picture of the printed items:

http://blog.solidconcepts.com/wp-co...Metal-Gun-Components-Disassembled-Low-Res.jpg

I was involved with using stereo lithography to make patterns back in the late '80's. It was hyped as the up and coming thing. The jobs turned out to be a CF, as the plastic rosin wasn't stable among other problems. But the engineers could make their own parts to handle, so the budget wasn't an issue. It was a year or two before the machine was shoved into a corner.

Thats an interesting proof of concept. Printing a gun that was designed around conventional manufacturing techniques.

What will a gun look like that is designed around 3D printing techniques? Suddenly L/D ratios on holes doesn't matter. You can have intricate details in places that can't be accessed with conventional tools.

If 3D printing comes of age, it will need an application that can't be done conventionally. Rehashing designs that can already be built with existing tools isn't it.

The test shots were probably with a single round chambered and an empty clip so the slide lock came up. I am reminded of the time a commercial photographer built the studio they all wished for, a large room with a high ceiling and all the corners radiused to eliminate lines in the background. The whole room was painted flat white and had every kind of light imaginable. The purpose was to produce advertising pictures with the object seeming to hang in space, saving cleaning up the background in the prints. He wanted to advertise his capability, so someone suggested he take a picture of an elephant, which he did. The point was not that people should bring him their elephant business but to illustrate that he could photograph their Ferrari or 14 piece dining room set, etc. The same logic applies here.

Bill

Jaxian said:

So just to play devils advocate here.

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BUT, if it's 20 years from now and this technology has finally matured why would anyone ever buy a CNC machine again?

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You are assuming that when "this technology has finally matured" it will be competitive with current machining technologies. One thing I would like to know is how long it takes to make each of the 3D printed parts. If, when the technology is mature, it still takes 10 minutes to print a 1911 firing pin I can promise you somewhere a CNC lathe with a bar stock feeder will be cranking out a bunch of finished pins in that 10 minutes.

If you need a 1/4" plate with 4 holes in it, you would be out of your mind to 3D print the whole plate.

Steve