16" Lodge and Shipley Advice Needed - Page 6
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 134
  1. #101
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    southern il
    Posts
    447
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    61
    Likes (Received)
    135

    Default

    If I understand correctly, there is a cluster gear damaged.............just one side of the cluster gears? If so, I would be thinking about turning it down to a reasonable size and cutting a new gear, possibly out of fatigue proof steel (it would give you some hardness, without having to harden it yourself) then pressing it on the hub left where the gear had been turned down..................Could save some trouble

  2. Likes Sachmanram, Jim Christie liked this post
  3. #102
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    New Brunswick, Canada
    Posts
    1,445
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1443
    Likes (Received)
    506

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rj1939 View Post
    If I understand correctly, there is a cluster gear damaged.............just one side of the cluster gears? If so, I would be thinking about turning it down to a reasonable size and cutting a new gear, possibly out of fatigue proof steel (it would give you some hardness, without having to harden it yourself) then pressing it on the hub left where the gear had been turned down..................Could save some trouble
    I like that idea. I'm just not sure that with a press fit, if it would ever hold up under high torque.

    Brian

  4. #103
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    southern il
    Posts
    447
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    61
    Likes (Received)
    135

    Default

    A proper press would likely be enough..........but I would drill horizontally and put a round key into the mating area, after it is together.

  5. Likes Sachmanram liked this post
  6. #104
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    6,600
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    798
    Likes (Received)
    3488

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sachmanram View Post
    I like that idea. I'm just not sure that with a press fit, if it would ever hold up under high torque.

    Brian
    We used to drill and tap holes down the joint line and fit grubs screws. " Loctite " the screws in then peen over the holes with a centre punch.

    Regards Tyrone.

  7. Likes Sachmanram, Jim Christie liked this post
  8. #105
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,285
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4999
    Likes (Received)
    4117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    We used to drill and tap holes down the joint line and fit grubs screws. " Loctite " the screws in then peen over the holes with a centre punch.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Done that. More than once, but always "shallow" depth items.

    Deeper ones, have also used taper pins 'coz I had 'em, and the reamers for 'em.

    Easier than trying for an uber-precise straight-cylinder hole and pin fit, OR hoping nuthin' moves and shags the tap.

  9. #106
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    6,600
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    798
    Likes (Received)
    3488

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Done that. More than once, but always "shallow" depth items.

    Deeper ones, have also used taper pins 'coz I had 'em, and the reamers for 'em.

    Easier than trying for an uber-precise straight-cylinder hole and pin fit, OR hoping nuthin' moves and shags the tap.
    I can't say I've had a problem with this method to be honest. You can alway put four screws in instead of two. Of course I would still make the job a light press fit. That should prevent any chance of tap breakage. I have seen people use those very tightly wound spring pins as well as the screws but I think that's a bit of overkill to be honest. If you do fit pins as well the holes will still need peening over.

    Regards Tyrone.

  10. #107
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,285
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4999
    Likes (Received)
    4117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    That should prevent any chance of tap breakage.
    Nuthin' to BRAG about, but I never needed a lot of excuse to find a way to break a tap..



    I have seen people use those very tightly wound spring pins as well as the screws but I think that's a bit of overkill to be honest.
    My luck, those bugger's would work loose, go walkabout, and destroy sumthin' REALLY expensive.


    If you do fit pins as well the holes will still need peening over.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Taper pin at least only needs the small end "upset". We already KNOW how hard they are to remove when you WANT them out, so I've never had one even offer to fail.

  11. #108
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    6,600
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    798
    Likes (Received)
    3488

    Default

    The Spring pins are OK as long as you make sure the holes you drill are blind. IE don't drill all the way through both gears but stop just short of breaking through the gears. Fit the pins so they are about 1/16" below the surface of the gear and peen over the hole. You'll find they stay put if everything is done properly. You can use taper pins if you like, there's nothing wrong them. You just need a reamer.

    Regards Tyrone.

  12. #109
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,285
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4999
    Likes (Received)
    4117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    You just need a reamer.
    I have found it wise to always have a set of the common taper-pin reamer sizes laid-in, if mostly settin' idle or used for basic clean-ups.

    Yah need one, yah really NEED it, and they are much harder to just pop-out and buy off the wall than drills and taps or DIY as a D-drill or reamer.

  13. #110
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    southern il
    Posts
    447
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    61
    Likes (Received)
    135

    Default

    I'm assuming some hardness could still be encountered, so drilling and reaming might be a bit tricky.......however with a carbide bit, most anything can be handled. Turn down an old bolt to fit snugly, maybe a generous application of penetrating Locktite, as said, leave the pin short enough to peen the opening of the hole...........

  14. #111
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    6,600
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    798
    Likes (Received)
    3488

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    I have found it wise to always have a set of the common taper-pin reamer sizes laid-in, if mostly settin' idle or used for basic clean-ups.

    Yah need one, yah really NEED it, and they are much harder to just pop-out and buy off the wall than drills and taps or DIY as a D-drill or reamer.
    I had a box full of hand reamers, both parallel and tapered. You pick them up on your travels,if you get what I mean.

    Regards Tyrone.

  15. #112
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,285
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4999
    Likes (Received)
    4117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    I had a box full of hand reamers, both parallel and tapered. You pick them up on your travels,if you get what I mean.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Assuredly. And lose about as many left behind or lent-out, n'er to be seen again, some tours...


  16. #113
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    6,600
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    798
    Likes (Received)
    3488

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Assuredly. And lose about as many left behind or lent-out, n'er to be seen again, some tours...

    I was like a dog with a bone regarding losing/lending tools. I can only recall losing a 1/4 W X 5/16 W " Stahlwille " open end wrench in all my time. Obviously stuff like Allen keys got lost from time to time but nothing that I'd paid for !

    I did lose a little spirit level once over. One of the guys unfortunately got killed in an industrial accident. The blokes decided to auction off his tools so his widow could have a few quid to go towards the funeral.

    When they cut the lock off his tool box and opened it there was my spirit level with my name on it. Along with other tools that belonged to most of the other guys in the shop !

    Regards Tyrone.

  17. Likes JBoogie, Sachmanram, Monarchist, lienjohn liked this post
  18. #114
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    New Brunswick, Canada
    Posts
    1,445
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1443
    Likes (Received)
    506

    Default

    This type of repair sounds good. We''ll have to see just how much meat there is on the smaller gear without teeth, between the splined bore and the OD. The other gear is much larger, and would be a good candidate for this repair, I believe.

    Brian

  19. #115
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    6,600
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    798
    Likes (Received)
    3488

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sachmanram View Post
    This type of repair sounds good. We''ll have to see just how much meat there is on the smaller gear without teeth, between the splined bore and the OD. The other gear is much larger, and would be a good candidate for this repair, I believe.

    Brian
    You'll have a better idea when you have the gear in your hand. Normally repairs like this are doable.

    I once got called to a break down on a big old fashioned centre lathe were a guy had been threading the end of a large shaft. When he'd engaged the screw cutting there was a loud bang and a handful of gear teeth came flying out of the open slot in the " Norton " type feed gear box.
    The operator didn't tell me he'd been trying the screw cutting and I was young and foolish so I didn't ask the right questions. I assumed the gears had broken when he engaged the long travel feed.

    It was a pretty big lathe so I left the leadscrew, shafts and saddle all in place and just removed the feed gear box. When I dismantled the gearbox two of the gears had about 5 missing teeth. So I set to drilling and tapping the gears, fitted threaded plugs, welded up the plugs, made sheet metal templates to the existing gear profile, filed the teeth to perfection and put the box back together again.

    I got all the lot back together again and I said to the operator " OK Pal, switch on " . So he switched on and there was another loud bang and another handful of teeth flew out through the opening in the gearbox ! I couldn't believe it ! 3 days work just gone with a bang !

    On further investigation I found that the steel lead screw had seized up in the cast iron hanger bracket down the far end of the lathe. It was just steel to cast iron, no brass sleeve bearing and no means of lubrication that I could see other than a squirt with the MK 1 oil can. When I say seized up I'd never seen anything like it, it was solid. I ended up chain drilling and grinding a slot in the hanger bracket and belting two taper wedges in the slot to open up the bore that held the lead screw end. Even then I had to use a sledge hammer to drive the leadscrew out of the bracket !

    Then it was back to repairing the gears as described previously, at least I didn't have to make the templates again. 3 more days work and it was all back together again. I had to mill the slot I'd made in the hanger bracket and fit a filler piece. I fitted a small oil bottle into the filler piece and made sure the bottle was always kept full after that.

    Another lesson learned the hard way.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Last edited by Tyrone Shoelaces; 01-12-2018 at 11:24 AM.

  20. Likes Monarchist, Sachmanram, JBoogie, Paolo_MD liked this post
  21. #116
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    New Brunswick, Canada
    Posts
    1,445
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1443
    Likes (Received)
    506

    Default

    Well, I finally got some time in the shop this afternoon. The first thing that I did, was make a pulling block out of some 1" aluminum stock for the slide hammer, to pull the top head stock bearing retainer for the sliding shaft. This bearing retainer has two 5/16"-18 NC threaded holes, 2.500" on center. With this, I easily pulled the retainer out of the head stock.

    img_0726-768x1024-.jpg

    img_0732-768x1024-.jpg

    I then moved on to the outer bearing block, which houses both the clutch shaft, as well as the sliding gear shaft that has the damaged gear. There are 3 allen head cap screws which are obvious, as they are at the surface, but there are also two allen head locating pins, that are in deep holes near the outer edges of the block. They could be easily overlooked, because the holes will likely be filled with oil.

    img_0746-1024x768-.jpg

    In order for the bearing block to come out, you have to remove at least, the top two slot headed screws, holding the bearing retainer for the clutch shaft, from the bearing block. These screws were "staked" and I had to use a hammer driver to get them loose. I found out later, that I eventually removed all 4 screws, as well as the bearing retainer, in order to move forward.

    img_0753-1024x768-.jpg

    Now, the bearing block will tap out with gentle persuasion. It is a very precise fit.

    img_0756-1024x768-.jpg

    I will post this, and continue with more pics and narrative.

    Brian

  22. Likes Paolo_MD, Peter S, Mike C. liked this post
  23. #117
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    New Brunswick, Canada
    Posts
    1,445
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1443
    Likes (Received)
    506

    Default

    Tyrone, you were spot on about that snap ring in the outer race of the bearing.... it does, indeed, press against a shoulder in the bearing block.

    img_0757-768x1024-.jpg

    img_0758-768x1024-.jpg

    On to the inner bearing block, it had two obvious allen head cap screws, and two of the deep hole allen head pins. These holes were also filled with oil.

    img_0760-1024x768-.jpg

    I then removed both 1/2" oiling pipes from the pump. It then occurred to me, that I would have to remove the entire clutch shaft, along with the bearing block and oil pump, as one unit. The way that the pump is attached to the bearing block, makes it impossible to remove the bearing block any other way.

    I then removed the other 2 slotted screws and the clutch shaft bearing retainer from the rear of the head stock.

    I made sure that I noted the orientation of the clutch shaft, as well as the position of the clutch lever mechanism, so that I can return it to it's original position, before removing the entire assembly.

    img_0762-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0767-1024x768-.jpg

    Brian

  24. Likes Paolo_MD, Peter S liked this post
  25. #118
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    New Brunswick, Canada
    Posts
    1,445
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1443
    Likes (Received)
    506

    Default

    I am done in the shop for today, but I think that I have a sound plan for tomorrow. In addition to having to remove the entire shift lever assembly, above the gear shafts, I will also have to remove the brake cone supporting block, before I can remove the sliding gear shaft. There isn't enough room for the brake drum to slide off of the brake shoe assembly, in order for the shaft to come out.

    img_0768-1024x768-.jpg

    Brian

  26. Likes JBoogie, Paolo_MD liked this post
  27. #119
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    6,600
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    798
    Likes (Received)
    3488

    Default

    I like how the lines can be removed as a more or less complete unit and worked on on the bench. That's a great idea and lessens the chances of making a mistake in my opinion. On some of the lathes I've worked on you needed to be an amateur gynocologist or have your arms broken and reset at different angles. Keep up the good work Brian.

    Regards Tyrone.

  28. Likes Sachmanram, Mike C. liked this post
  29. #120
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    southern il
    Posts
    447
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    61
    Likes (Received)
    135

    Default

    If the gear is too small for the gear/hub approach.................I'm wondering about welding the tooth area up with an alloy rod/wire and using a shaper to cut the teeth. Welding slow and keeping the temp down will add to the hardness even when using regular mig wire (using the rest of the gear as a heat sink) but it may still be a bit on the low side. I'd like to have something in the Rockwell 35-38C range maybe a couple of points more.
    Tig welding might be another possibility, but my background in tig has been strictly aluminum, though I am getting ready to use it for stainless


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •