3CH RAM machine questions

I just bought a K&T 3CH, serial no. 8892. One of 20 3CH vertical & horizontal RAM machines built in '61. Problem I'm having is finding info on machine. All 3CH manuals I'm finding don't cover this machine. Does anyone know what the RAM stands for? This machine has standard double overarms, flywheel on spindle, and electric controls instead of clutch. Looks like it has hydraulic feeds, and also separate motor for coolant pump. Also it seams heavier than standard 3CH. Dealer had it tagged as 10,200#. I thought they were wrong until I went to unload it. My forklift will pick up 10,000# on a 24" LC unwillingly, but will do it. I stacked about 400# on the counter weight along with my son standing on back ( I know, not OSHA approved, but it worked to get it off the trailer) and still light on the steers. I know my LC was more than 24", but I had the mill as close to the mast as possible. In fact the table handwheel was over front tires. So, with all of that, I would appreciate any info or insight into this mill. Thank you, Matt

This machine has standard double overarms

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Ram isn't double over arms, its powered over arm- another gear box and motor in huge cast over arm mounted to column in dovetail - that you can hang arbor supports on when using horizontal spindle. Lot book agrees with your description for 8892, so I would be looking real close at actual serial number stamped into left column face about chest high.

Ram weighed 8750 while non ram was 7400 in '57 catalog. Those are for Universal, Plain was a little less

Add Ram scan from '57

That is what I thought about the RAM. I scrapped off paint and that is the serial no. It reads 2-8892. So, I'm not sure what to think. Maybe first couple were standard machines. Thank you for such a quick reply. I've been watching and reading things on this site, but this is my first attempt at posting here. This site is amazing in the amount of information and experience of people communicating here. Thank you to all that make this possible. I was trying to post pictures (posting from Samsung tablet) but unsuccessful so far. I just starting messing with the K&T mills. This machine seems pretty descent, but have not had it powered up yet. I removed the breather vent on the side of the gearbox in column and internals look beautiful. Oil is clean and free of sludge. Oil sump in base was still full of cutting oil so I think I'm lucky they didn't use water based coolant. I've not been in the knee yet, but that is the next place I'm going to check. I've read post before on importance of motor rotation on these particular units, and need to go back to read again. I'm hoping I can just remove the belts and fire up the motor to check direction. I don't see anything electrical on the motor pulley, all seems to be on the infeed pulley. Anyone have experience on this? This is a very different setup from my other K&T's. I went from 0 to 7 in 3 months. Found them basically just above scrap value or less. So far a 2HL vertical, 3 5hp 2CH horizontals, this 10hp 3CH horizontal, a 4H horizontal with adjustable vertical head (with gear!!!), and a 3KM horizontal. So far it has been a mixed bag as to condition. I assumed that going in. The 2HL vertical is torn apart and in process of getting some parts replaced or repaired and cleaned up. One 2CH had crashed gearbox, other two were pretty nice machines and all internals work and are nice and quiet. The 4H I think will be a parts machine, as I was told some speeds didn't work, but haven't been through it yet. If so I think I'll put the vertical head on the 3KM. I was amazed at the engineering put into the geartrain of these machines. Taking the 2HL apart has been a learning experience for sure. They definitely used water based coolant and a few bearings and seals didn't survive. Luckily the gears and other internals have cleaned up nicely. Sorry to ramble on, I love this stuff! And again thank you.

All older ones have direction arrow on input (used to be clutch) pulley

Have belts off until you know the motor is going to turn the pulley per the arrow

Any advice on posting pictures?

Any advice on posting pictures?

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Just PC here - don't know about other devices

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Follow thru on upload to forum as thumbnail

Like this scan

I just use the "quick reply" then click on the picture icon (third from right) then u will have to pick "from computer" (what I use) choose file............upload file

I haven't done URL addresses, but should be similar.

Here are a few pics

I don't understand why it turned some. They all appeared correctly on my screen till I posted them.

I'm not familiar with the hydraulic feeds, and would .like the opinion of those that are. Is it a good system? Are there issues to watch for? Are there advantages or disadvantages to this system?

I had some time today to look the machine over some more and think I wrongly assumed some things. First, not sure it is a 3CH. There is no badge on it as to the model. The overarms are 4 1/4" in diameter, table is 13 1/2" x 56", it has 24 speeds and 32 feeds, is 10hp not 7 1/2hp, and not hydraulic feeds. Looking at the 2CK manual, everything matches up except there are no rear controls. Just a plain cover plate where they should be. Second there is a plate on the side that reads 43-7605. It is cast with raised numbers. That comes up as 2 4CK parking attachment.

A 3CH will have 4 1/4" overarms and the rear controls were optional - while on the 2CK were standard

I'll guess the 24 speeds came with the modernization from 3H to 3CH. All 3H machines to my knowledge were 16 speed, while all K machines were at least 24 speed - with the exception of the early 4K which was 27 speed (per full line 1939 catalog)

It was long establised K&T practice for the next size up H machines to share some main castings with the K - as in 2K and 3H being very similar in physical size / weight

This machine still doesn't seem to be a 3CH. Table is short and has 10HP, not 7.5hp. Everything seems to match up with the 2CK info other than the rear controls. The serial no. is where I started, so I trusted it to be a 3CH. It is definitely not a 3CH RAM machine as serial no. says. Regardless, all I'm worried about is making sure it is a working machine at this point. Going back to cleaning and changing all the electricals to 220V. There are a bunch of starters and relays that need different heaters and transformers to change over. Thanks, and I'll try and get better pictures soon.

If you have the little rectangular cover that goes on right column face hole over input pulley area, these are often marked with exactly what model it is

"working surface" of both 3CH and 3CH ram tables was 13 1/2 X 64" in '57 catalog

There weren't any more CKs by '61 (or '57 for that matter) - all replaced by the TF series with twin knee screws

Heavymetal70 said:

This machine still doesn't seem to be a 3CH. Table is short and has 10HP, not 7.5hp. Everything seems to match up with the 2CK info other than the rear controls. The serial no. is where I started, so I trusted it to be a 3CH. It is definitely not a 3CH RAM machine as serial no. says. Regardless, all I'm worried about is making sure it is a working machine at this point. Going back to cleaning and changing all the electricals to 220V. There are a bunch of starters and relays that need different heaters and transformers to change over. Thanks, and I'll try and get better pictures soon.

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The cover is bare, no markings. The working surface is definitely 13 1/2" x 56". The surface of casting where serial no. is, looks original and not tampered with. This thing seems to be a puzzle as to it's origin.

The electrical panel is marked 10hp, motor nameplate says 10hp, all seems to be original. Could that be an option?

Heavymetal70 said:

The electrical panel is marked 10hp, motor nameplate says 10hp, all seems to be original. Could that be an option?

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Standard 3CH HP in '57 catalog is 10 HP. I imagine this continued for '61.

Got it fired up and all the feeds and speeds work. The spindle and gearbox sound great. The feed motor works, but sounds like a bearing is going bad. Rapids work good, but the feed clutch needs adjusted. So far I'm happy with things.

Heavymetal70 said:

Got it fired up and all the feeds and speeds work. The spindle and gearbox sound great. The feed motor works, but sounds like a bearing is going bad. Rapids work good, but the feed clutch needs adjusted. So far I'm happy with things.

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Its always nice to find out they are not junk inside

Ok, so now I've run into a problem. Rapids work on all 3 axis, but the regular feeds are week. It's not growling like the safety clutch is popping over, or any noise at all. On the slower feeds it works, but if I try a faster feed rate it slips or stops all together. Looking through the parts book I don't see an adjustable clutch on regular feeds. I do see a roller clutch, I assume so the rapids can overtake the regular feed when engaged. Any ideas? If the roller clutch is bad, wouldn't it make noise as the rollers came to the high spots and then past? Any way to test roller clutch? Any input would be appreciated!