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American Locomotive Plant Demolition

Joe Michaels

Diamond
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Location
Shandaken, NY, USA
A sad event is underway in Schenectady, NY. The American Locomotive (ALCO) plant is being demolished to make way for the usual re-development (offices and condominiums).

I travelled from our home powerplant in the Schoharie Valley up to a remote hydro plant on the Mohawk River at Vischer Ferry yesterday (15 June, 2011) . I made sure to take the route through Schenectady streets as I had heard the old ALCO plant was slated for demolition. As of yesterday, the demolition contractor was moving fast. Demolition had begun at the north end of the plant and was up to the old boiler shop. The boiler shop is the tallest building on the Alco property, it is where boiler barrels were built by standing them on end. "American Locomotive Company" can still be seen in faded paint on the topmost portions of the old boiler shop walls. Looking South through the demolished boiler shop, you can look thru to the big doors on the end wall. It was here that many "works photographs" of new locomotives such as the NY Central J-3 Hudsons were taken.

From what I could see, the interior of the old boiler shop looked to have been gutted of any remnants of the days of rivetted boilers. The premises had been occupied for at least the past 20 years by a structural steel fabricator, so it would stand to reason that anything remaining from the boiler work such as power rivetters, plate rolls, or punches would have been removed long ago.

It's a sad sight, and I doubt any effort will be made to preserve any part of the old ALCO buildings. It's the ALCO site's turn to join General Electric's Schenectady works at doing a vanishing act and becoming parking lots or anything but a good solid heavy industrial plant ever again.

I looked at the ALCO site, knowing I would never again see the old boiler shop standing there with "American Locomotive" still painted on the highest walls. I wondered what the plant had been like in the days when they produced the legendary and powerful steam locomotives like the NY Central J-3 Hudsons, or even the UP Big Boys. Alco delivered their last steam locomotive from the Schenectady Works in something like 1948. By 1968, they delivered their last diesel locomotive and were done with locomotive building. They attempted to go into making equipment for power plants like feed water heaters, but died soon after in a series of corporate takeovers. Now, it is hard to find many people in and around Schenectady who even know that ALCO built some of the finest and most powerful steam locomotives in the world, locomotives that were exported all over the world. I wonder if any kind of historic plaque will be erected, but it will only be a few railfans or people like those of us who frequent this 'board who will take note of it.

I have not hear if any of the original ALCO buildings were to be preserved or converted for re-use, and it would not surprise me if the entire complex was razed. I'll miss driving up to the Vischer Ferry hydro plant and seeing the old ALCO plant. Like most of the engines that came out of it, and like most of the workforce who built those engines, the buildings are now fading into just photographs and memories.

Joe Michaels
 
They even built the ALCO automobile for a brief span in the early 1900s - a "road locomotive" of suitable mechanical elegance and lofty cost.

The U.S. is in an unnatural hurry to become the king of the do nothing, know nothing nations.

J.O.
 
I think the ALCO cars were built in Providence, in their huge shop on Valley Street. That plant is still standing and has recently undergone some sort of redevelopment. ALCO cars were clones of the French Berleit. They are huge. There was a '12 around here for years although I understand that it was sold when the owner found the only existing chain-drive ALCO, a '10.
 
If I remember rightly, the ALCO automobile included a model known as the "Limited". This was probably the first use of that name for any automobile. ALCO did not intend for the name "Limited" to mean "limited edition" or "limited number built". ALCO took the meaning from the railroads, where a "Limited" was a fast train, usually made up of first class or private cars, making a limited number of stops. A "Limited" train was a fast train, drawn by a heavy passenger engine capable of high speeds, heavy passenger coaches with the finest interiors, not your everyday train. Hence, ALCO applied the name to their cars.

Aside from producing an automobile, ALCO had a hand in the making of someone whom I consider a great man, Walter P. Chrysler. Chrysler exemplified what the US was about, and how a man could rise from humble beginnings with no limit if he was sharp and willing to apply himself. Walter P. Chrysler was the founder of Chrysler Motors, started his career as an apprentice machinist in the Union Pacific Shops at Ellis, KS. He was sharp and rose quickly in his profession. He wound up as superintendent of the Pittsburgh, PA works of the American Locomotive COmpany. At some point in his early career, Chrysler came into contact with early automobiles, and at an auto show saw a "Locomobile". The Locomobile started as a steam car, but switched to the building of heavy gasoline powered cars. Locomobile was aiming for the high end market. Chrysler bought a Locomobile car, not knowing how to drive or much about it. He promptly took it apart, studied it carefully, got it back together and then learned to drive. He saw the future in automobiles, so moved on from ALCO in the next few years.

John, as you recently posted about the demise and demolition of the Pratt and Whitney buildings in Hartford, the disease is pervasive. The demolition of ALCO's old plant was just something waiting to happen, I guess. It would be one thing if an old plant were demolished and some newer heavy manufacturing facility were built on the site. That seems never to be the case.

Like yourself and many others, I'm disgusted with the whole state of affairs. When my son (now 23) and his peers, all recent college graduates with stars in their eyes, ask me about where this country is heading, I pull no punches. My answer is succinct: "The US has been running on a Bulls--t economy since about 1980". I tell these kids, all of whom have graduated with honors from fine colleges about the death of Big Steel and the subsequent slow death of heavy manufacturing. I tell them the US Economy is like a big flywheel, taking time to coast down. With the illusion created by economists and politicians, and the hype surrounding "cleaning up the environment" and how bad the "smokestack industries" were, and the complete obliteration of the work ethic and the idea that "everyone must go to college" trumping the idea that skilled trades are needed and make for a rewarding and honorable career, US manufacturing was on the ropes. I tell these young people that the worst plague ever visited upon the United States of America came from within, germinated and propigated in Business Schools. I tell these young people that the worst creation let loose on the USA is an MBA from the Harvard Business School. These MBA's have no social conscience or allegiance to their own country, just to the bottom line and getting their bonuses. Between the MBA's, politicians posturing to constituents about cleaning up the environment, and the number done on our younger generations by the educational system, we have dug ourselves into a hole we may never get out of. I tell these young kids that they are part of a helpless generation, a generation that is about 180 degrees out from what the United States was about when I was in their position, a young college graduate just starting my career. They ask me what they can do, and I tell them to start in their own corner of the USA, try to maintain a high ethic, try to encourage local businesses, try to buy US made goods... and boycott Walmart. I told them talk is cheap and money can talk awfully loudly, so it may be hard to hold onto their ethics and act on them, but if they do not, things will not improve.

I've watched these kids grow up, and some still call me "Mr. Michaels". This past spring, the whole crop graduated from fine schools. One amongst them is a Mechanical Engineering graduate, already working in nuke power. The crowd my son ran with through his pre-school to the end of HS will disperse, but they came together at college graduation time. A round of parties in our area followed. My son split some cordwood and fired our grill. The beer was in the garage. My wife had a little bit of consternation and then resignation as the college grads and parents seemed to gravitate to the garage instead of out to where the party was supposed to be taking place. I put a piece of plywood on the table of the old camelback drill so people could stand their beers there. People leaned on the motorcycles, and rested their beers on the hoods of the tractor and welding machine or on the anvil... and the young grads asked me what the future held, and how the US was in the fix it was in. So, graduates of schools like Harvard and University of Pennsylvania and Hobart got an earful from an oldtime engineer, standing amidst welding equipment, blacksmithing tools and motorcycles.

I am realistic enough to realize that even if US Manufacturing did make a come-back, it would be in a form vastly different than the vision of endless saw-tooth or monitor roofed shop buildings. It would be glassed-in or engineered steel buildings, highly automated or using mostly CNC machine tools. The days of thousands of men working at jobs like being machinists on manual machine tools, or operating turret lathes or working at drop forges or countless other similar jobs, or working on the blast furnaces or open hearth steel furnaces is done with.

ALCO's plant is an example of the oldstyle US heavy industrial plant. It was ultimately killed by corporate greed and their failure to really keep in step with the times. Another locomotive builder had existed in recent times in the same region. They built diesel passenger locomotives. They had a new plant, and the methods used and the scope of the work was so vastly different than what ALCO had done. They fabricated the frames and carbodies, and bought the engines, generators, trucks, and much else. It never seemed or felt anything like ALCO as far as being a "real" locomotive plant. Not sure what they are doing now. I suspect they were a short-lived enterprise, existing only as long as a contract to supply new locomotive to the MTA existed.

I'm sure the inevitable will happen on the ALCO site as it did on the Pratt and Whitney site: the developers and politicians will pump themselves up over the "creation of new jobs" by virtue of some more stores and maybe a "convention center" . It's just a perpetuation of that BS Economy that runs on hype and illusions. I'm convinced the flywheel that was the real US economy is about run down to a near standstill as plants like P & W or ALCO pass into history and nothing comes along to replace them in terms of heavy manufacturing.
 
Joe - you're scaring me! You simply CANNOT say it like it is. We're not supposed to know about our slide.

One of the other forums I've been known to partake has a webmaster who uses the expression "The US conversion into a turd whirled nation-state."

Seems fitting somehow. Glad we're here to keep the flame alive. Or at least try.

Joe
 
Joe M. - well stated, sir. Your post should be required reading for all those who think the answer to all our country's problems is to "cut costs - import it from China".
Thank you for "telling it like it is" so clearly and concisely.
 
That is very sad. A few years ago I worked a job in Lima Ohio, Lime gave birth to the "Superpower" locomotives. The once majestic factory complex had been reduced to a rubble filled hole, more like a dump than than a symbol of Americas's greatness.
 
Like yourself and many others, I'm disgusted with the whole state of affairs. When my son (now 23) and his peers, all recent college graduates with stars in their eyes, ask me about where this country is heading, I pull no punches. My answer is succinct: "The US has been running on a Bulls--t economy since about 1980". I tell these kids, all of whom have graduated with honors from fine colleges about the death of Big Steel and the subsequent slow death of heavy manufacturing. I tell them the US Economy is like a big flywheel, taking time to coast down. With the illusion created by economists and politicians, and the hype surrounding "cleaning up the environment" and how bad the "smokestack industries" were, and the complete obliteration of the work ethic and the idea that "everyone must go to college" trumping the idea that skilled trades are needed and make for a rewarding and honorable career, US manufacturing was on the ropes. I tell these young people that the worst plague ever visited upon the United States of America came from within, germinated and propigated in Business Schools. I tell these young people that the worst creation let loose on the USA is an MBA from the Harvard Business School. These MBA's have no social conscience or allegiance to their own country, just to the bottom line and getting their bonuses. Between the MBA's, politicians posturing to constituents about cleaning up the environment, and the number done on our younger generations by the educational system, we have dug ourselves into a hole we may never get out of. I tell these young kids that they are part of a helpless generation, a generation that is about 180 degrees out from what the United States was about when I was in their position, a young college graduate just starting my career. They ask me what they can do, and I tell them to start in their own corner of the USA, try to maintain a high ethic, try to encourage local businesses, try to buy US made goods... and boycott Walmart. I told them talk is cheap and money can talk awfully loudly, so it may be hard to hold onto their ethics and act on them, but if they do not, things will not improve.

Thanks for speaking and writing the truth, Joe!

I've copied & e-mailed your paragraph above to my 25 year old daughter to read and distribute to her friends.

Mike
 
Now that we have an economy based on moving pixels around, there's hardly a need for manufacturing. A guy doesn't need to look very hard to see that virtual reality has already overtaken reality for a lot of people. I'm not going to feel sorry for the idiots who develop chronic tendonitis in their thumbs from twittering their stream of unconsciousness on their lame little phones.

They can keep all their chrome-plated plastic, but I'll keep my cast iron, thanks.
 
Now that we have an economy based on moving pixels around, there's hardly a need for manufacturing. A guy doesn't need to look very hard to see that virtual reality has already overtaken reality for a lot of people. I'm not going to feel sorry for the idiots who develop chronic tendonitis in their thumbs from twittering their stream of unconsciousness on their lame little phones.

They can keep all their chrome-plated plastic, but I'll keep my cast iron, thanks.

First, Joe - Excellent summary. I'm going to print that one out to keep handy.

Second, Old-School - Your alias here on the Forum sums it up. We all are old school type folks. Once we are gone, there will be very, very few folks to keep the "Old School" equipment alive. The younger crowd does not know what it is like to have a "device" last more than a year. Planned obsolescence is a fact of life for them.

I used to live near Oneonta, NY where back in the 20's Rail was supposedly huge, big enough that Oneonta can claim to have had the largest roundhouse & turntable in the word. No doubt someof the ALCO trains got spun there.

I don't wish this to happen, but we need a good wake-up call to get us back on track. If the Asian countries decide to cut us off, we are screwed.

On a happier note, I am now proud owner of a nice, old Delta-Rockwell floor DP, model 17-600. I'll start another post in a few days and post some pictures.

Fixing things is therapy for me.



Walt
 
ALCO history preserved in Schennectady

Joe,

You wrote: " I wonder if any kind of historic plaque will be erected, but it will only be a few railfans or people like those of us who frequent this 'board who will take note of it."

I stayed in a hotel in Schennectady about 20 years back. There was a memorial marker out front that said "ALCO Site", and gave a brief history. This hotel was a couple of blocks away from the building you are describing. It was near where ALCO's turntable had been.

The Schennectady City Museum has an ALCO diesel locomotive out front, I think it is an RS-3. It's painted in Great Northern Railway colors, orange and dark green. (Would be nice if they had a New York Central RR RS-3 in the grey "Lightining Stripes" colors, but I suppose the RS-3 they have was originally a GN loco and therefore the curators would want it in its original livery.)

Also at the Schennectady city museum is a handsome rotating model of the running gear of a proposed but never built 3-cylinder ALCO steam locomotive with FIVE driving axles. The motor-driven model will turn at the touch of a button. All the valve gear is modeled. At this late date, I cannot recall if this is an engineering model or a sales model. (I cannot recall how many pilot and trailing axles the model had, but I cannot imagine that a 3-cylinder locomotive would have less than two pilot axles.)

ALCO also made self-propelled tracked artillery carriages for the WW2 war effort, the type that the Brits nicknamed a "Priest". There was one on loan to the museum when I visited.

My writing skills aren't good enough to express the deep agreement I have with what you wrote about the end of the USA as an industrial, and therefore economic, power. We are heading the way postwar Britain headed, including watching our currency cease to be the world's "reserve" currency the way the Pound once was.

One cannot eat pixels, nor wear them, nor get out of the snow under them. They are not real wealth.

John
 
One cannot eat pixels, nor wear them, nor get out of the snow under them. They are not real wealth.

No, but if one controls them, then one controls the INFORMATION, which is the basis of all control.

Read "1984" in which even the language was intentionally limited (Ingsoc) to limit the thoughts of the people who used it.

The question is - how much longer will the US control the bytes? Last week's hacking of the Senate Website and last night's hacking of the CIA kind of says something - and today's media is mum on the effect. (See that we're not supposed to know effect mentioned above.)

Drifting further .....

Sorry Greg, not to push the envelope. This one almost needs to be moved to the "general discussion." But then we'd lose the origin (that ALCO factory) and any subsequent additions.

Like my story of the three dumpsters at the General Electric Holyoke factory. Even the Smithsonian didn't think they were worthy - or couldn't get off their collective "red tape" long enough or fast enough to do anything about it.

Thank God for people like us:

"Those who are unaware of the past are doomed by fate to repeat their mistakes."

Var. on George Santayana


Joe
 
IIRC India still has 3,000 or so ALCO locomotives running, and have
purchased the tools/parts.
 
Thats why I'm asking nicely. Frankly I share the feelings of those who have posted, but I'd like this thread to not get much further towards the "edge" than it already is.

Regards,

Greg
 
Sorry about the rambling off topic and off on a ranting tangent. I appreciate the forum, as there are very few places a person can give vent and be heard far and wide. I am torn up, something that goes beyond the mere demolition of the ALCO plant, as the posting digressed into. I suppose the demolition of the ALCO plant is just a symptom, like a rash on a person's skin, or a deeper and pervasive underlying ailment. It's a rash that produced "blooms" we came to euphemistically call "the rust belt". It's something that erupted wherever there was heavy industry. It hurts me, and I am a dangerous old dinosaur when I get a few minutes and get near a keyboard. However, point taken, I'll try to stay on topic, and thanks for your understanding and forebearance for this sad dinosaur.

Joe Michaels
 
Joe,

You, and those like you are keepers of the flame. As things vanish, only what you write and what photographs and drawings remain, along with the wonderful crazy people who move tons of iron and steel to be preserved, will be witness to what has been.

I read everything of yours I see.

Something to look at:

Alco Plant Schnectady, ny - Google Search.

Paul
 








 
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