Antique lathe Boston CL
Largest Manufacturing Technology
Community On The Web
Close
Login to Your Account

Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    517
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    189
    Likes (Received)
    334

    Default Antique lathe Boston CL


  2. Likes Greg Johnson liked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stratham, Cow Hampshire
    Posts
    3,723
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    221
    Likes (Received)
    1079

    Default

    Probably Lathe & Morse.

    It has the later "wide emblem." All of these I've seen show either Lathe & Morse, Lathe, Morse & Co. (1864-71) or Lathe & Morse Tool Company (1871 onward.)



    It does have the earlier OG bed and oval cross section legs. It was shortly after 1871 when Lathe & Morse became a tool company and transitioned from the oval cross section legs to the later Pratt & Whitney style. I think the OG bed transitioned a little earlier.

    It seems to have a later L&M tailstock - the one with a small oval on top rather than a full width planed flat. Also, the tailstock quill clamp handle is set off to the side rather than being square and centered on the top of this flat. My 1873 Lathe & Morse Tool Company lathe (now gone to Maritime Canada with member Sampson) was like this.

    Also a shelf (for convenience?) between the legs of the tailstock. This feature was patented by Putnam in 1871 (IIRC) but it was widely copied.

    Might be a "recycle" of an earlier lathe? I think many, including Lathe & Morse themselves did this for their earlier production.

    $400 is a lot for "parts" - still, it might keep away the "leg stealers." If the legs show "Lathe & Morse" it might be worth an offer? The only thing I see actually missing are the feed screw. It might be somewhere in that mess.

    Hmm. Actually - there is a Shepard, Lathe & Co. out in Sacramento California area that has been for sale for over a year at $1200. Purportedly from the early San Quentin Prison - but minus the legs. 18��s metal lathe - antiques - by owner - collectibles sale

    This San Quentin lathe is probably the earliest SL&Co. lathe extant. SQ opened in 1852. Shepard, Lathe & Co. started under that name in 1854. It was probably a rough trip around the Cape Horne in that pre-transcontinental railroad era?

    Shipping east would be easier today - but likely expensive.

    Joe in NH

  4. Likes cncFireman, Greg Johnson liked this post
  5. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    1,217
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    53
    Likes (Received)
    159

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in NH View Post
    Probably Lathe & Morse.

    It has the later "wide emblem." All of these I've seen show either Lathe & Morse, Lathe, Morse & Co. (1864-71) or Lathe & Morse Tool Company (1871 onward.)



    Actually - there is a Shepard, Lathe & Co. out in Sacramento California area that has been for sale for over a year at $1200. Purportedly from the early San Quentin Prison - but minus the legs. 18��s metal lathe - antiques - by owner - collectibles sale

    This San Quentin lathe is probably the earliest SL&Co. lathe extant. SQ opened in 1852. Shepard, Lathe & Co. started under that name in 1854. It was probably a rough trip around the Cape Horne in that pre-transcontinental railroad era?
    Joe in NH
    Hard to tell from the small pictures. It has a different style tag than the one Joe posted.
    Early Shepard, Lathe & Co. machines also had the wide tags.
    Ad from 1859 and picture showing wide Shepard tag on tailstock.
    My Shepard, Lathe & Co. lathe, from the Ford Museum auction in 1985, also has the wide tag on the tailstock.

    The Shepard lathe from San Quentin is not the earliest Shepard, Lathe & Co. extant.
    Here are two earlier ones below.
    Basing the age of the lathe on when San Quentin opened is poor.
    San Quentin could have bought the lathe at a later date or could have bought the lathe used.


    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails shepard-lathe-co.-1859.jpg   shepard-lathe-co.-5.jpg   shepard_lathe_-_co_planer_7.jpg   shepard-lathe-2.jpg   shepard-lathe-13.jpg  


  6. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stratham, Cow Hampshire
    Posts
    3,723
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    221
    Likes (Received)
    1079

    Default

    Funny you should mention a SL&Co. "wide" tag. I myself have a pencil rubbing of such a tag, procured by me in attempting to put a name to an early Worcester lathe of my ownership which I suspected of being SL&Co. (Thank you Mike U. wherever you are!) Shepard Lathe & Co. planer and Gould & Eberhardt shaper

    This "kidney shaped" nameplate rubbing had holes which match the holes on the headstock of my woodworking lathe which MAY indicate something. IIRC the plate rubbing says "Shepard Lathe & Co. Maker Worcester Mass" in three lines.

    To drift the thread slightly, here is a current Craigslist entry for an identical wood lathe. This owner puts it to CL Pike but methinks Pike was a re-seller of a Worcester lathe possibly SL&Co. Antique Cast Iron Wood Lathe from 187's - tools - by owner - sale

    And I'll bring a pix up and make it permanent...for the record and should someone make a positive ID. See attachment. I'm fortunate in that on my lathe a headstock pulley (wood) is present.

    Back to thread, another speculation I have which may support the earlier thread "collection of parts" hypothesis is that the legs and bed - and apron (see picture with apron on floor) seem to be from SL&Co, but the headstock & tailstock seem to be from a Lathe & Morse descendant. Supporting this thought is the fact that the owner (or someone) seems to have inserted raising blocks between these later parts and the bed.

    I know for fact that a L&M headstock and tailstock of my possession do not fit my earlier SL&Co. bed. The V's are the correct size (more or less) but are on slightly different centers - like 3/8" off - which is a bit much to be accounted for by simple variation in lathe fitment. More likely intended that way, or if not intentionally done, at least shop design change over time. The early SL&Co. lathe is like 14" swing, the later L&M lathe 15".

    I expect that this assembler of a "woodworking lathe" [sic] used the raising blocks as "transition blocks" because of this difference in bed V center-center distance. Sort of ingenious in a frugal "collector of parts" way actually? And downgraded the machine, in his mind anyway, to woodwork in the perceived inaccuracy of table saw made wooden transition blocks? (Not so inaccurate actually.)

    Should we see more of the headstock we might get a confirmation on this? The associated lathe apron shown on the floor shows the typical "worm reverse" carriage/saddle normally driven by a non reversing belt/feed shaft connected non-tumbler gear headstock. Should the headstock as shown include a tumbler reverse - that would be positive proof that these parts were not originally mated to each other.

    As if a V mismatch wasn't enough.

    If he drops his price to $200 for the parts I will probably go for this. Seller may be Brothers Machinery as they are in North Andover, MA., within sight of Lawrence, MA on the other side of Route 495.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 00r0r_8a6n4bguydr_600x450.jpg  

  7. Likes Greg Johnson liked this post
  8. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    517
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    189
    Likes (Received)
    334

    Default

    The San Quentin lathe has been listed regularly for over 2 years now. I wish it had the legs. I've thought about rescuing that one as well but too many irons are in the fire currently.

  9. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    1,217
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    53
    Likes (Received)
    159

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in NH View Post
    Funny you should mention a SL&Co. "wide" tag. I myself have a pencil rubbing of such a tag, procured by me in attempting to put a name to an early Worcester lathe of my ownership which I suspected of being SL&Co. (Thank you Mike U. wherever you are!) Shepard Lathe & Co. planer and Gould & Eberhardt shaper

    This "kidney shaped" nameplate rubbing had holes which match the holes on the headstock of my woodworking lathe which MAY indicate something. IIRC the plate rubbing says "Shepard Lathe & Co. Maker Worcester Mass" in three lines.

    To drift the thread slightly, here is a current Craigslist entry for an identical wood lathe. This owner puts it to CL Pike but methinks Pike was a re-seller of a Worcester lathe possibly SL&Co.
    The Shepard, Lathe & Co. tag that I posted is from Mike U.'s planer.

    C.L. Rice. Not Pike.

    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails shepard_lathe_-_co_planer_7.jpg  

  10. Likes Greg Johnson liked this post
  11. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stratham, Cow Hampshire
    Posts
    3,723
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    221
    Likes (Received)
    1079

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Lang View Post
    The Shepard, Lathe & Co. tag that I posted is from Mike U.'s planer.

    C.L. Rice. Not Pike.

    Rob
    Thank you - its been over a month since first seen (Craigslist typically lasts for 45 days unless the originator re-establishes the listing) and as you might expect, his pricing is enthusiast level.

    I did read a bit on Mr. Rice - he was quite entrepreneurial - but my estimation is he was not a producer of tools specifically.

    I hope the seller gets it - makes my $125 paid for mine a very satisfying price.

    But - its not completely about the money. I have paid more for the countershaft than the machine tool beneath it.

    Joe in NH

  12. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stratham, Cow Hampshire
    Posts
    3,723
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    221
    Likes (Received)
    1079

    Default

    Follow up on the "Boston Craigslist Lathe."

    I talked with the owner and made appointment to see it this morning. We sort of agreed on a price going into this (somewhat less than the ask but with caveats) but the details on that I'll leave to anyone who wants to PM me.

    Meeting the owner (who runs a custom woodwork shop filled with ALL SORTS of machinery in Lawrence) I saw the lathe as you see it upended on the roll-around pallet. The pallet/lathe is on a second floor - but the building includes a leather belt driven elevator (this a 19th century era mercantile building.)

    Of the lathe this is what I found.

    This a "Lathe & Morse Tool Company" lathe (by the nameplate on the headstock side) It has an Ogee moulded bed characteristic of earlier lathes - but this convention seems to have been used by LMTCo in this 1871ish lathe. There is no name on the stretchers of the legs which are that desired "oval" cross section.

    The headstock and tailstock are "mated" to the bed. These I took to be original to the bed. There were no tumbler gears in the headstock being drive for an apron worm reverse. The back gear is "straight" and not tapered or decorated between the two gears. The cross-saddle/apron is there but missing the worm and the center-mounted clutch and handwheel. The saddle traverse handle is there and the gear behind it loose but present.

    This a "three point" suspension weighted lathe. But - no weight, no hook, no "T" carriage, no toolholders/lantern/foot-block.

    No lead screw, no feed rod, no banjos, gears, or tooling whatsoever. No way to tell how threading was done (dogleg or half-nuts.)

    My conclusion - NOT to buy at the considered price unless one wishes to take on a LOT of work to replicate the missing parts.

    Were this a "lathe of assembled parts" not mated & matched (which I secretly hoped) I could have bought and discarded the parts I don't need with a clear conscience to repair (finally) my Shepard, Lathe & Co. lathe. But it is not. It needs a custodian more dedicated than I at this time - or someone willing to overlook its faults and use it as a woodworking machine - which is what it was advertised as. And doing so would preserve it for the next generation.

    Talking with the owner, he says "I have a couple of more lathes you might be interested in."

    On the floor below he has another unnamed lathe. This one I recognize as "Lathe & Morse Maker". Older by small years than the lathe above it was a 14" swing 5' bed (nice homeowner size) and was nearly complete and "plug & play" including drive-all, motor and tooling. A lathe currently in service which is a plus. This lathe also has the ogee bed/early legs and has a tailstock minus a shelf - but not a "box." He has it modified for use with a dial for cross slide movement. This one has a "dogleg" connection to the leadscrew for threading.

    On the same floor he has a Hill, Clarke, & Co. supplier tagged no-name Flather Patternmaker's lathe which he confesses is his "catch all." (covered with boxes) Nice machine I would put at 1890s or beyond as the main spindle bearing have Flather's unique 4 bolt "adjustable bearing cap." (Adjustment bolts are hollow and the slotted cap screws only serve to hold down the cap.) Perhaps 16" swing by 10' between centers. A column turning lathe?

    He also mentioned a Fay & Scott lathe on another floor. I didn't see that.

    Owner is my age (60ish) and is just starting to "clean out." I take that to mean that just about anything you want out of his shop can be bought - at a price.

    So an interesting expedition which didn't pan out for me - but I learned something along the way. And met a kindred spirit. He wants the lathe to go to a user. Wood or otherwise.

    Joe in NH

  13. Likes Greg Johnson, Paolo_MD liked this post
  14. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    1,217
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    53
    Likes (Received)
    159

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in NH View Post
    Follow up on the "Boston Craigslist Lathe."

    I talked with the owner and made appointment to see it this morning. We sort of agreed on a price going into this (somewhat less than the ask but with caveats) but the details on that I'll leave to anyone who wants to PM me.

    Talking with the owner, he says "I have a couple of more lathes you might be interested in."

    Joe in NH
    So you went to see the lathe and the owner had other items for sale and you took no pictures to post?

    Rob


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •