What's new
What's new

Artillery workshops behind the Western Front --1916

A great old film. I wonder where that shop was located ? At the "Appell" (roll call or formation), some of the buildings look like an existing shop complex with a powerplant and possibly a locomotive engine house (short stacks near the edge of a 1 story building roof).

These guys were pretty advanced, having air rivetting guns. One youtube from a similar era, showed men driving rivets with hand hammers. These guys also had oxyacetylene torches.

Knowing a little bit of the history of WWI and the conditions at the front, I have to believe the men in the artillery repair shop had one of the best assignments. Out of the mud and behind the lines from the actual fighting, sleeping in bunks in a regular building, dry clothes, dry socks, regular meals, a dry and clean place to work.... The men in the artillery repair shop had it really good by WWI (or any war) standards. My own father fought in the US Army in Europe in WWII. He
did not talk too much about it. One of the things he once told me was that he got to spend a night sleeping on the bed of a 6 x 6 truck, off the ground and under the tarp covering the truck's bed. Dad said it was like being in a hotel after sleeping in the mud. When Dad was dying, he made sure to tell us not to bury his body. He asked to be cremated, saying he'd spent enough time in holes in the ground and in the mud. Seeing the conditions in the trenches of WWI, and seeing the artillery shop conditions, I think the men there must have realized how good they had it.

The officers in that movie are almost comical. Strutting around, looking over the mens' shoulders, carrying walking sticks with fancy heads and spit shined riding boots.... The men were probably mechanics before they ever entered the Kaiser's Army from the looks of them. I am sure the men did not need aristocratic officers looking over their shoulders and commenting on their every move, as seems to be the case in this film. The other thing the movie makes a person aware of is how dependent on horses the armies in WWI were. All the artillery pieces and caissons seem to be built with wooden wagon wheels and are designed to be drawn by horses. The smallest pieces appear to be mortars, designed to be dragged by soldiers. Caring for vast numbers of horses in peacetime is work enough. In wartime, caring for large numbers of horses and working them in an atmosphere which seemed bound to spook any horse is hard to imagine. Horses are not as sturdy as people might think. They are prone to respiratory ailments and pneumonia, and keeping them in the wet mucky conditions at the front without proper dry stables in winter was sure to have killed a lot of the horses. Then, there was the matter of keeping feed coming for those horses. Not so easy as bringing up a tanker of gasoline or diesel fuel, or having it on hand in jerrycans. The care the horses required to keep them reasonably healthy and able to pull the artillery around is something a lot of people probably do not think about. I once met a pipefitter who'd served in the US Army artillery in the 1930's. He joined the Army as an 18 year old to get 3 squares a day and a roof over his head as the depression had hit his family hard. This fellow told me he was put into the "pack artillery". He thought he had it knocked, not being assigned to an infantry unit, until he found out what it was to work with and care for the horses. As this fellow told it to me, they were up super early to feed, water, curry comb and harness the horses. When they moved out on manuevers in the field, this fellow had to walk with the horses or mules (both were used to draw artillery in the old US Army of tyhe 1930's). Come end of the day, the draft animals had to be walked-out of they were overheated, then cleaned, rubbed down, fed and watered before the soldiers could get supper and turn in. This was peacetime maneuvers. In WWI, at the front, without proper stables or means to really care for the draft animals, I am sure there were a lot of horses on both sides lost to illness. I know there are statistics published for human casualties in WWI both military and civilian, but I wonder if anyone ever figured out how many horses or mules served and how many were killed in action. I know that even during WWII, draft animals were still used by all sides.

The men in that movie had a good thing going in the rear echelon repair outfit. That was for a guaranteed thing. They could put up with strutting officers with walking sticks a whole lot easier than being in the trenches at the front.
 
Yep, easy duty.
The officers know how to strut, certainly a large herd of them, all attempting to look indispensable in case THEIR boos appears
"Stick is a "swagger Stick"
 
Joe, I read, I believe , in Air Classics magazine an account by a pilot of the ME262. He said that when they responded to an Allied attack they towed the aircraft to the runway with oxen because fuel was so scarce that they could not taxi the aircraft, especially this early jet engine with its ravenous fuel consumption. I also vaguely remember an account from a WWII general that on the road to Paris one could walk miles stepping from one dead horse to another as the Germans had used horses to move artillery due to fuel shortages.
Just as many underestimate the power of steam, many under estimate the power of animals.
 
I have an American Machinist issue from the WW1 time frame that had a story about the US army artillery work shop. One of the things that the US had to do when they entered the war was to set up work shop like the one shown in the film to repair and reline artillery pieces every x number of rounds. I'll see if I can find the story.

Vince
 
Its a widely held misconception that it was fuel shortages that forced the Germans to use animal transport, though no doubt the situation was worse at the end. In fact, the German Army was never fully mechanized. In the planning for Operation Sea Lion they even ordered the modification of river barges in order to transport the 4,000 horses they would have to bring with them... and that was in 1940 when there was no effective shortage of fuel.

To a large extent we are still the victims of the Joseph Goebbels school of journalism... practically all the film we have of the German Army in action or on the march was taken by their own Propaganda Ministry. While the occasional film of horse drawn artillery does sneak in, the emphasis (and orders) were to film the latest and most up-to-date units. Thus, we've come away with the same distorted notion of the German Army that their own propaganda wanted to project during the war.
 
Hello, I believe 8 million horses were killed ( murdered) in WW1. Also a hundred thousand or so horses were slaughtered to feed starving German troops. What a world we live in !.
 
IN the USA, there was an organization of WWI vets called "The 40 and 8". What this referred to was the markings on the sides of French Railroad boxcars: "40 Hommes, 8 Chevaux" (40 men or 8 horses). French railroad boxcars at the time were the 4 wheel variety, apparently not too large a car. The capacity each boxcar could haul of men or horses was painted on each boxcar used to haul them to and from the front. When I was a kid, on Armistice Day, there'd be parades, and the "40 and 8" always had a mocked-up steam locomotive (usually built on an old truck chassis) and a mocked up boxcar. A bunch of WWI vets in either their old uniforms or other service organization uniforms rode in the boxcar. All gone now, and probably not too many people even know or remember the significance of the "40 and 8".

I find it hard to imagine dealing with horses in wartime. Horses spook easily enough, and trying to load a reluctant or spooked horse into a trailer was once too often for me. How they handled those horses in WWI and how the horses got acclimated to the environment at the front is something this thread has caused me to think about.

I worked for a construction manager a few years back who was a WWII vet. He told me he had attended University of Wisconsin, at Madison just before WWII. At the time, he was a member of the ROTC. One of the things this fellow told me was that they had an artillery company in ROTC. Manuevers often consisted of going to somewhere in the Wis Dells area like Camp Douglas, and going out with teams of draft horses and artillery pieces, caissons and supply wagons. In those days, draft horses were common, even in cities, so a lot of the cadets knew something of handling and working them. Sounds like quite a college experience, going out with a detachment of ROTC cadets, some "retread" sergeants and officers who were held over following WWI, and learning to work with horses.

A bit closer to home was the example of a relative of mine. I'll keep the details vague to protect his memory. Suffice it to say that when his family lost their farm to the bank during the depression, he wound up in NYC as a teenager. He fell in with bad company, and participated in an armed robbery (driving the getaway car at age 16). He was sentenced as an adult, getting 5-10 years in Sing Sing while his older accomplices, with previous records got lesser sentences. Anyhow, this relative of mine started to serve his time, and was transferred to a medium security pen. There, he learned the machinist's and welder's trades, and was a model prisoner. He was allowed to work outside the walls on the honor farm. When WWII broke out, this relative volunteered for service in the US Army. He went into the artillery, and made a career lasting 38 years out of it. During WWII, he spent his time repairing artillery pieces in Europe. He spent some time at White Sands, NM following the war as a machinist, then served in Korea, various other rotations, and two tours in Vietnam. Ill health was the reason my relative was mustered out. He was aloof from most of our family as he did not want his own family (wife and kids) to know of his early days, and he refused appointments to OCS as it meant his past would have to come to light. He made it to first sergeant and stayed there for most of his life. I got to talk to this relative by phone a couple of times right before he died. He was an artilleryman and machinist, and he was proud of it. He was a decorated soldier, that was for sure.

I look at the men in the old movie and think of this relative, regardless of what side the soldiers in this movie were on. Most soldiers are ordinary men, and truth be known, they are mostly anxious to get home and resume their normal lives. I suppose the guys in that old movie probably had the same thoughts, wanting to get it over with and get home. The officers in the old movie are the ones who probably had no other calling in life, and as long as WWI was going on, they were in their glory. Spit shined riding boots, fancy uniforms, probably hoping the war lasted a good long while so they could all rise in the ranks. Meanwhile, the men fixing the artillery pieces were probably just glad to be in a rear echelon outfit, and hoping to get home soon.
 
I have posted in other threads about my old Cinncinnati-Bickford "camelback" drill. My C-B drill has the depth graduations on the quill in metric & English units. It was also shipped from the factory with a self-contained motor drive. The motor is a 220 volt single phase repulsion-induction motor, an open-frame 3 HP monster. The drive between the motor and the lower cone pulley shaft is by spur gears. I've often wondered about the origins of this C-B drill. Since it had the self-contained motor drive and the inch/metric depth graduations, the thought was always in my mind that this drill was built for either export, use aboard ship, or possibly for use during WWI in field machine shops. Having the self contained motor drive, the drill could be set up and used anywhere there was electricity to power it. A field shop could have been an open area with a mobile generating set, or it could have been in an existing building such as a barn, garage, or anything with doors and roof. The dual graduations in inch and metric made sense for WWI use as anyone- whether from the US, Great Britain, or France, could use the drill.

WWI was the days of lineshaft driven shops. If a lineshaft driven shop building were damaged, chances are the lineshafting was rendered inoperative. The artillery repair shop in the film looked like it was an existing shop that had not been exposed to the war, so the lineshafting and bridge cranes and all else was intact. A shop closer to the front would be another story. It might have consisted of comandeering any remotely suitable building and moving in machine tools and equipment and setting up shop. A building with a few shell holes punched into it, if it was otherwise sound, could be made into a field repair shop, a field hospital, or any number of other uses.

Watching the old film had me chuckling. The captions read something like "dreck" is washed off with a water hose. "Dreck" is a word we use to mean shit. I suppose "dreck" was not too far off the mark, as the muck from the front may well have contained human wastes, guts and gore from humans and horses, horse manure and who-knows-what else along with mud. The hose the fellow was using to sluice the dreck off the damaged artillery pieces was bigger than a garden hose, and he seemed to have plenty of water behind it. I wonder if the shop complex was not originally a RR shop, given the types of buildings and what is visible peripherally in some of the film, and the interiors of the shops having wide open bays with overhead hoists and cranes. A RR shop or engine terminal would have some shop facilities, and it would have plenty of water around as well as rail access and sidings.
 
There may be a more suitable thread to post this link in but it was one I remembered about Cannons from WW1
It is a link to the Handbook of the 18-PR. Q.F. GUN - Land Service


This is the British Army Handbook of the 18 Pounder Field Gun of the British and Commonwealth Armies of the Great War of 1914-1919, reprinted with amendments prior to the start of the war in 1914. This field gun was a key piece of artillery used by the Canadian Expeditionary Force in the First World War. The book contains detailed specifications, diagrams and operational protocols.”

https://archive.org/details/HandbookOfThe18-pr.Q.f.Gun-LandService
Here is the link to read on line
https://archive.org/stream/Handbook...ndService/Handbook18pr_final#page/n0/mode/1up
If some one knows of amore suitable thread you could post the link there as well.
I found the book looking for information for a local history group project about WW1.
Regards,
Jim
 
In response to Post #10: There is a genuine "40 and 8" French RR car at the B&O RR Museum in Baltimore. After the war, the French sent one to every State that would agree to accept it, in gratitude for US assistance 1917-1918.

In response to Post #13: It would be nice to know exactly where that WW1 German ordinance repair shop was located. It could indeed be a former RR facility. "Behind the Western Front" is suitably vague for security purposes. It might be on captured territory or it might be in Germany itself. In any case, they seem to have gathered all the machines and other facilities that they need.

John Ruth
 
I noticed this segment on the news recently about an 18 pound field gun loaned by Belgium to the Canadian War Museum that may be similar to the one mentioned in the link in post # 14 .
I have not studied the details.
I thought some who posted in this older thread might like to see it .
Cannon from First World War gifted to Canada - CBC News | The National

Here is the link to the same video on Youtube in case the other one above doesn’t work for some people outside Canada .
Cannon from First World War gifted to Canada - YouTube
More about the cannon here
Belgium ships cannon back to Canada for WWI centenary commemorations - The Globe and Mail
Museum Home Page
Home | Canadian War Museum

P.S. More about Arthur Currie mentioned in the C.B.C. video in this video that I had seen on TV Ontario and was also on other networks
Great War Tour- Master of War Special Edition Pt 1 - YouTube
I can't get the link to go to the beginning of the video so you may have to scroll it back.
Regards,
Jim
 
Last edited:








 
Back
Top