Brown and Sharpe No 13 Universal grinder age plus other ancient grinder questions

I thought I bought a Cylindrical grinder that came over on the Mayflower, but it turns out a No 13 is a universal and tool grinder. It's pretty neat, swivels and travels in almost every way imaginable. I have a real need for both a cylindrical grinder and a surface grinder and this thing was just down the road and it was right at it's value by the pound. It has a few shop upgrades over the years including a nice variable speed conversion for the workhead.

The machine has 7161 on it for a serial number can anybody give me a manufacture date closer than my guess of late 30's?

All the pictures of No. 13's I've found in my search so far have 8" grinding capacity. This grinder has 4" risers and 16" capacity.

The big question on my mind-

How do I make sure the spindle is good? This grinder has it's original spindle, with plenty of evidence of repair/maintenance over the years, but it doesn't have any wiggle to it. I haven't powered it yet. I drained a tablespoon of gunk out of the spindle oil sump and filled the reservoir to the sight window with DTE light oil (hoping this oil is OK for this spindle?).

The spindle has 4 screw in steel plugs, about an inch diameter each, along it's length. These plugs are hand stamped 1,2,3 and 4, but they weren't in any order before I removed them. Under these steel caps are short pieces of brass round stock with concave ends riding on the spindle. There's nothing between the steel caps and brass pieces, but there's room between them that appears to have been for a spring? But there's no springs there. What are these caps and brass pieces all about?

It's a cool grinder with lots of features. So far it looks like a runner, but I want to verify the spindle is sound before I invest the time to clean it up, paint and adjust it.

Serial book stops the four digit serials at 6396 at the end of 1950. Last serial in '53 was 525-13-433. One would assume 7161 was made in '52.

Spindles were still plain bearing in '47 like on my #4 Universal. I run Velocite #6. They do okay, like here:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/20 Heavy Greaves Klusman/Second Shaft/?action=view&current=DCP_1321.jpg

Thanks a lot for looking that up John. That must not be the right serial then. This thing must be older than 1950, I'd be shocked if it was so new. All the pictures I've come across online of No. 13's look newer than the one I have. This machine has a single elctric motor in the base with flat belts running the spindle and going up to the power feedworks on the side of the base casting. I'll clean it up some more and see if any more numbers come up. This machine's manufacture looks right at the crossover of lineshaft to electric.

The plaque on the spindle says Saybolt 100 @ 100 degrees F and DTE light is around 130 SUS. I hope this isn't too far off to prove the thing isn't junk.

Serial on my #4 Universal is dead center on front vertical face of table. Has 1707 and the Navy anchor

Here is a slow to load vid of me running it:

http://98.230.173.3:8080/aero/files/misc/P1010311

And another:

http://98.230.173.3:8080/aero/files/misc/P1010314

Dyslexia kicked in- the serial is 6171, stamped in numerous places on the grinder.

I've been trying to attach pictures of the mystery plugs on the spindle, but the site won't allow it right now.

I'll look in serial book again this evening for 6171.

The brass pieces are bearing adjusters.

Prolly shouldnt have messed with them the procedure to set them is rather complicated.(and important)

Heavey Metal said:

The brass pieces are bearing adjusters.

Prolly shouldnt have messed with them the procedure to set them is rather complicated.(and important)

Click to expand...

I was thinking they are important, Two were loose so I removed all of them, cleaned them and reinstalled. I put them in 1-2-3-4 order, instead of whatever they were. Sounds like I made mistake.

I know zero about plain bearing surface grinder spindles. I've owned some old behemoth conehead lathes that had spindle bearings you couldn't hurt with a crowbar, but my assumption is that grinder spindles are a hell of a lot more sensitive and need appropriate care for the job they do.

I would love to hear anything anyone could tell me about inspecting, adjusting and maintaining this old spindle so I don't have to scrap this thing due to my own ignorance.

The grinder's neat, but it's not neat enough to spend the time and money fitting a modern spindle to it. This is for $$$$ generating use, not hobby. If this machine can't do work it isn't worth having.

I really wish I could put pictures up of this thing showing exactly what I'm referring to. I'm sorry I'm not savvy enough to a photobucket account.

1947 on the date. Same date as mine, but mine has very straight forward adjustable bronze boxes (bearings). I keep them snug enough to run warm.

The easiest way to put photos on PM right away is get one of the several free "resizing" soft wares, make your photos less than 97Kb and upload them direct using Manage Attachments in the "Go Advanced" posting mode

B&S published Construction and Use of Universal Grinding Machines. My 1920 copy exclusively addresses the type of bearings on my spindle. I would expect a later copy would tell you all about your particular bearings.

Dont know how to adjust the bearings on your grinder but on a cincinatti you run it for four hours than tighten them with it running with an

allen wrench 2 fingers on the shank. Than to prove it you do a timed rundown test .

Garwood said:

I was thinking they are important, Two were loose so I removed all of them, cleaned them and reinstalled. I put them in 1-2-3-4 order, instead of whatever they were. Sounds like I made mistake.

I know zero about plain bearing surface grinder spindles. I've owned some old behemoth conehead lathes that had spindle bearings you couldn't hurt with a crowbar, but my assumption is that grinder spindles are a hell of a lot more sensitive and need appropriate care for the job they do.

I would love to hear anything anyone could tell me about inspecting, adjusting and maintaining this old spindle so I don't have to scrap this thing due to my own ignorance.

The grinder's neat, but it's not neat enough to spend the time and money fitting a modern spindle to it. This is for $$$$ generating use, not hobby. If this machine can't do work it isn't worth having.

I really wish I could put pictures up of this thing showing exactly what I'm referring to. I'm sorry I'm not savvy enough to a photobucket account.

Click to expand...

A pretty handy grinder for a general tool shop.
Dates back to the 1870's.
One early intended use was for grinding circular form tools for Brown & Sharpe Screw Machines.
Handy today used with magnetic chuck as face plate as much as between centers.
A great machine for shoulder work and any form type work as angle dressing is straightforward and radius dressers are available.
Great find if you have the room.

I can't believe this was made in 1947! Thanks again John. It just shows how little I really know when I think I know anything- I really thought this was a lot older based on it's construction with flat belts and all.

Heavy Metal- Thanks for the insight into how the spindle works. What you've said makes sense, I need to figure out what's missing from the adjusters on my spindle and the book John recommended is probably exactly where I'll find it.

Leg17 said:

A pretty handy grinder for a general tool shop.
Dates back to the 1870's.
One early intended use was for grinding circular form tools for Brown & Sharpe Screw Machines.
Handy today used with magnetic chuck as face plate as much as between centers.
A great machine for shoulder work and any form type work as angle dressing is straightforward and radius dressers are available.
Great find if you have the room.

Click to expand...

My specific use for this machine is very simple, just facing both ends of a part to length and parallel while held on a mandrel.

If I can use it for other general surface grinder work it's a win-win for the grinder and me. The grinder doesn't go for scrap and I get one machine that can do the job of several individual machines.

Garwood whatever happened to this machine?

I have one now and I'm trying to troubleshoot the spindle not turning fast enough.