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Can anyone give me an estimate on the weight of this old Mill?

fumehappy

Plastic
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Location
hudson valley, Ny
Hello,
This is a size 1 1/2 owens universal Mill i'd like to pick up next week. The seller says it is 6'6" with the top shaft, and he feels it weighs 2-3k pounds. I haven't moved anything this big before, but I feel like 1-2k is a closer estimate. Can someone please weigh in, so I know what size Trailer I need?
Thanks!
mill.jpg
mill2.jpg
 
I've never seen one of those in person...
My guess is close to 2,000 up to 3,000 lb

If there's a prize for the closest guess I'll go with 2,350 lb
 
Be Careful !

Please be very careful when you move this, as it is no doubt very top-heavy. This thing could easily kill you or maim you for life.

I once moved a 1,850 lb. mill singlehanded. I made a very heavy pallet and lag-bolted the mill to that. After that, it was pry bars, pipe rollers, and a jack used horizontally. Getting the mill off the pallet was a matter of making stacks of thin planks, then sliding the mill from the pallet to the stacks. Then I walked it down by taking one plank out of each side until it was on the floor.

If you can take any weight off the top in situ, it will make the move easier and safer.

Don't try to move any of the axes until you've dismantled it and gotten all the rust off the ways, gibs, and lead screws, otherwise you will just grind up the precision surfaces.

This is going to be a fun hobby, just cleaning up this antique machine. I wish you well! Check out the Patrick Black Hendey lathe restoration thread for inspiration. Who knows, you may even be able to make money with it.

John R.
 
I’d say the sellers estimated is close. Back when that mill was built the school of thought was “more is better” when it came to using cast iron.
 
2K# for sure. Bolt or lag some 2 x 6 skid on the bottom extending out 24" on both sides and tag some 2 x 6 cross bars at the ends. That will add stability and allow you to roll it on some pipe rollers much easier that just using the base.
 
Hello,
This is a size 1 1/2 owens universal Mill i'd like to pick up next week. The seller says it is 6'6" with the top shaft, and he feels it weighs 2-3k pounds. I haven't moved anything this big before, but I feel like 1-2k is a closer estimate. Can someone please weigh in, so I know what size Trailer I need?
Thanks!
View attachment 223948
View attachment 223949
See if you can rent a hydraulic drop deck trailer, I rent from local united rentals. The deck goes down almost flat making on and off very easy.IIRC the double axle was rated 10,000 lb.
Edgar

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It appears that headroom was tight when that milling machine went into place in the building- one of the joists in the ceiling looks to be notched to allow the big multiple=vee belt pulley to clear. The multi=vee belt pulley has almost a solid web, and is a flywheel as well, so plenty of weight there. My suggestion is to take the drive apart in place, since lowering it as a unit does not appear possible.

A trick I've used in low-headroom situations like the one pictured, for raising or lowering lighter loads, is to drill holes in the joists and pass a piece of round stock or a piece of pipe thru the holes. The holes need to be drilled (or hole-sawed) on the centerline of the joists. This is known, in engineering, as the "neutral axis", and is the point at which there is zero bending stress. A hole drilled or hole-sawed a bit larger than the bar or pipe will let a longer bar or pipe be angled and slipped in to span the joists. A rope can be snubbed around this bar or pipe to let things down, or a light chainfall or comealong rigged off it. Without knowing the framing of the building, I would not go more than 250-300 lbs on this sort of rigging. Letting down the countershaft with the cone pulley, flywheel/pulley and pillow blocks will get rid of a lot of top-heavy weight, as will removing the motor.

Once the drive is removed, the center of gravity of the mill moves down towards the base. As has been noted, getting the mill on skids is the safe way to go about moving it. I use rough-cut 4 x 4s or 6 x 6s from local sawmills. I bring my chainsaw for jobs like this one, and cut the skid timbers to length. I also cut the ends of the skid timbers on 45 degree angles. This makes "sled runners", and makes the job of moving the machine on rollers or simply dragging it up the ramp of a trailer a whole lot easier and much more stable. I use lag screws and washers to secure machine tool bases to skid timbers, when I cannot use carriage bolts. I have an electric impact wrench which works wonders for driving lag screws. The building floor in your photos looks like a dirt floor. Some planks and pieces of plywood to make a
"runway" to move the mill out on using pipe rollers is how I'd go about it. I'd bring a pick and shovel to level off the dirt floor as needed, and some smaller pieces of plywood or 4/4" board lumber to use as shims to level off the plank or plywood runway. A machine tool on skids, moved on pipe (or solid bar) rollers, moves quite easily. It can be steered and moved along with a pinch bar and by angling the rollers, the machine tool will turn on a dime. The rest of the story is that the runway planks or plywood has to be fairly level and well supported. If there are any divots or dips, the machine on rollers can behave like a hog on ice when the weight comes on the rollers that find the soft spot or dip.

I use a 1 1/2 ton chain comealong for this sort of move, and coming up the ramp of a trailer, use a second comealong as a "safety" to keep the machine from toppling backwards off the ramp. I tie the second comealong up high on the machine being moved and run a chain or sling to the trailer tongue. The comealong doing the dragging of the machine up the ramp is set low, with a sling made up around the base, just above the floor mounting flange. As the machine tool starts up the trailer ramp, there may be a tendency for it to want to tip backwards down the ramp, and this is where the "safety" comealong made up onto the top of the machine tool comes into use.

I also try to avoid using any rollers for the move up the ramp, as having a machine tool get away on a ramp is something that is quite dangerous.

My other caution is to avoid getting yourself between the machine tool and walls where you might get pinched or squashed if the machine shifted on its rollers or hit a soft spot in the dirt floor. If you see the machine is starting to topple or fall during the move, get away from it as fast and as far as you can. You are physically incapable of stopping a toppling milling machine and to try might get you seriously injured or killed outright. It's not worth it. A little extra care up front on rigging jobs is well worth the added time and expense. Skids increase the footprint and add a lot of stability, and lowering the center of gravity by removing the drive will help immensely in making the move go a lot more easily. Good rigging- slings of known load rating or good chains- and good working comealongs are a necessity. Trying to rig with half assed light cable comealongs and rope can be done, but it is more of a chancy proposition.

Where in the Hudson Valley are you located ?
 
FumeHappy,

At the risk of telling you something that you already know, I want to offer this list of things to search for when buying a mill. All these things are items that sometimes get left behind when a mill is sold:

1) The outboard arbor support.

2) Overarm for same. In that era, it's usually a heavy steel round shaft.

3) Any braces for the arbor support or overarm. They often bolt to the edge of the table.

4) ANY tooling, especially mill holders and arbors.

5) GET THE DRAWBAR that holds the tooling into the spindle.

6) Indexing head, tailstock, and any change gears for same. (This is a universal mill; it can cut a helix with the correct indexing head and change gears.)

7) Vise

8) "Smalls" such as OEM wrenches, OEM oil cans, oil cups, and the like.

You may find that a mill this old has square-headed setscrews. The OEM provided wrenches for these, usually Williams, Armstrong, of Billings brand.

This is a generalized list for ANY horizontal mill.

Be safe. Have fun.

John Ruth
 
I greatly appreciate the warnings about the weight of machinery. While i have not moved something this size, I have moved stuff beyond the "edge of manhandling" and I am acquainted with the dangers and physics of something like this in free fall, and have a healthy respect for it.
 
When you don't know what it weighs, measure length, width and height and reduce to cubic volume.
Divide the cubic measurment by 2.
Multiply that result by the weight of cast iron per cubic foot.
Guarantee you'll rarely be underweight with the number.

If you're a rigger you charge by that number.
 
Yup, it's going to be heavier than it looks. As said above, cast iron was cheap back then, so they applied it liberally. The money was in labor to make and finish the machine.
 
A friend has a very similar Garvin mill. This vintage does not have the weight of "newer" mills, I would guess 2200 based on his. It has the same cone pullys overhead, and I have put them on and off three times in low headroom. The last time I did it I made a adjustable shelf from some 2x6s and some plywood. Take the hook off of an engine hoist, and bolt the 2x6's to the sides of the boom. Screw the plywood to the top of this, over the boom. Then, we slid the whole thing onto the plywood and lowered it to the floor. Used the same setup for putting up a unit heater in the shop.
Joe
 








 
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