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Choose between Monarch, L&S, Colchester lathe (was:Need some input)

nettleton23

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 27, 2017
I was in a machine shop the other day trying to get parts made and the guy in the shop told me he could sell me a lathe cheap. He showed me a 1936 14x30 Monarch but then he told me of another man that has machine tools. So I went there. He has two 15" Clausings with a bed that is 67" long on both and a Lodge & Shipley close to the same size but a little shorter (not much though) than the Clausings. All are about the same price and in about the same condition.

The Monarch has power and seen it run but needs work on cross slide. I could tell by the grooves in the compound it had been ran in the chuck and it needs work on the handle. What bothers me about it is, the bed is short.

The Lodge & Shipley was maybe my next choice but can you get parts for them. When they were rigging it to move they broke a bracket for the on and off were it mounts to the machine. The compound had been in the chuck so many times that they had to mod it to hold a tool holder or it had had been over tighten and it broke. Someone called themselves painting it but it looks like they took the paint and poured it on top and let it run all over.

Then we come to the Clausing Cholchester. There's two of the about the same. They are just alike almost. One has a three jaw chuck and a heavier tall stock. The other has a four jaw chuck and a set up collets. The tail stock isn't as heavy as the first one. So I asked about swapping parts from one to another but he doesn't want that to happen. These two were so close that I had to climb on them to look at them. The compounds on both were in mint condition. No marks on the ways.

The Clausings and the Lodge & Shiley did not have power so I didn't see them run. The Monarch would be hands down the best (in my opinion) but the bed would limit the jobs I could do.

In your opinion what is the best one out of the three, Monarch 14x30, Clausing 15 with 67" bed or the Lodge & Shipley 15x? maybe 60" bed.
 
technically there are no parts available for older lathes other than getting used parts from other machines. The companies will make you parts but the cost exceeds what you payed for the machine. If you need this machine to make a living with and you dont have experience repairing machine tools you might want to keep looking for something ready to use. As far as the size of the lathe I wouldnt worry about it because no matter what lathe you buy it will always be a little to small for the jobs you want to run on it. Everyone always needs another inch or two.
 
L&S started in 1893. So it pays to know what you are looking at. By 1936, the Model A (12, 14 and 16") looked like so. It still had plain spindle bearings and hard ways were still twelve years in the future. In that year you could get a cone pulley version of the Model A - no gear head.

L&S made larger lathes of course - up to 60" swing

All of these oldies were SLOW in the spindle speed choices.
 

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I would lean toward the Clausing with 4 jaw and collets. A 3 jaw is going to be the easiest thing to add to the lathe after you buy it.
Given equal condition, pick the most completely tooled lathe. You will be money ahead.
 
From what you say, all but the Colchester have visible "issues". That would push me toward the Colchester. Might need to investigate i closer.

The collet setup is harder to find than chucks, AND it has a 4 jaw, so I'd probably concentrate n that to see if it has any real "stopper" problems. Tailstock should not be an issue if it is the one that is supposed to be with the machine.
 
technically there are no parts available for older lathes other than getting used parts from other machines. The companies will make you parts but the cost exceeds what you payed for the machine. If you need this machine to make a living with and you dont have experience repairing machine tools you might want to keep looking for something ready to use. As far as the size of the lathe I wouldnt worry about it because no matter what lathe you buy it will always be a little to small for the jobs you want to run on it. Everyone always needs another inch or two.

That's why I was leaning more toward the Clausings because there were two of them. I can only afford one and was going to see if I could do some work at his place to pay for the other. The guy is trying to set up his own machine shop and needs some wiring finished which I can do.
 
Another vote for the Clausing-Colchesters, but a 'conditional' one.

Mint compounds are good sign. They indicate low abuse, more caring and attentive operators, if not also low total use and lower wear overall. Better chance they suffered less in the way of OTHER abuse, poor/no lube, etc.

The 'conditional' is that whilst the angular/squarish Clausing-Colchester "Triumph" / 2000 look to be more capable lathes on specifications than the older rounded "Master" & "Student", the old curvacious ones earned a lot of love in their native UK and North America. The "Triumph" series, only a grudging tolerance, not much actual love at all, anywhere.

The 'plan' to acquire both Colchesters is a sound one, either way.

The others - good when new notwithstanding - seem to have been badly trashed.
 
L&S started in 1893. So it pays to know what you are looking at. By 1936, the Model A (12, 14 and 16") looked like so. It still had plain spindle bearings and hard ways were still twelve years in the future. In that year you could get a cone pulley version of the Model A - no gear head.

L&S made larger lathes of course - up to 60" swing

All of these oldies were SLOW in the spindle speed choices.

The Lodge & Shipley was from around that time, it looks a lot like you one posted.
 
From what you say, all but the Colchester have visible "issues". That would push me toward the Colchester. Might need to investigate i closer.

The collet setup is harder to find than chucks, AND it has a 4 jaw, so I'd probably concentrate n that to see if it has any real "stopper" problems. Tailstock should not be an issue if it is the one that is supposed to be with the machine.

Good, fast-operating collet setups, power, 'lever' or 'loop' are not cheap or easy, no.

Collet setups that can get one working are cheap and easy.

Look at plate-mount / flat back if not-also actual 'native' spindle fits in 5C nose-mount key-operated and ER-40 and smaller ER. The plate-mounts CAN be gripped in a 4-J, centered as good as one has the patience for.

Any of that sort will carry a newbie until he scouts a faster to operate lever or loop closer.
No drawtube to mess with.

Three-jaw is easily replaced with garden-variety rubber-wedge or flip-down doorstops from Rubbermaid or Stanley and such at the local big box.

They are as noxious a trip-hazard as doorstops as they are noxious on lathe spindles anyway.

Save the backplate off them. It can hold a 2-J, 4-J, or 6-J, all of which DO have a proper place on a lathe.
 
After going over everything in my head about these machine again. The only thing I remember seeing that could be an issue with the Clausings was that the spanner nut that holds the chuck on was beat up and it was on both. Not hammer and chisel type damage but more like not having the right wrench.
 
After going over everything in my head about these machine again. The only thing I remember seeing that could be an issue with the Clausings was that the spanner nut that holds the chuck on was beat up and it was on both. Not hammer and chisel type damage but more like not having the right wrench.

Get more ID info. Photos if possible. Later Triumph/2000 used D1. They can look 'beat up' even when they are not but the camlocks are not hard to replace, even so.

Dunno if the Long-taper "L" mount was used on Colchesters, but where I HAVE seen them, they DO get wrong-spannered as often as not. Fixable if the rest of the machine is OK, just not as easily so as D1. Nor as necessary. Condition of the 'works' has very little to do with the spanner cosmetics.
 
Get more ID info. Photos if possible. Later Triumph/2000 used D1. They can look 'beat up' even when they are not but the camlocks are not hard to replace, even so.

Dunno if the Long-taper "L" mount was used on Colchesters, but where I HAVE seen them, they DO get wrong-spannered as often as not. Fixable if the rest of the machine is OK, just not as easily so as D1. Nor as necessary. Condition of the 'works' has very little to do with the spanner cosmetics.

The Clausings are 6500 model made around 1958. They have the L? mounting chucks.
Clausing.jpg

This is not the one I'm looking at but it is one just like it
 
I ran one of those Clausings you describe. Soft bed ways and carriage were worn so bad at the spindle end of bed that the apron had dropped due to wear causing the rack and pinion had minimal mesh and started shearing teeth. In a cut it would hesitate or stop then get going again as the pinion "clawed" it's way along the rack. Eventually you couldn't trust it to thread because the pinion would catch and jam the rack wrecking the threading operation. Many a time it would jam so bad that eventually the clutch/shear pin mechanism for the feed rod or screw would break. The spanner nut on the spindle was in the same condition you describe, beat to death from lots of hard use. Parts aren't available.
What you are describing are near scrap if you start investigating further I am suspecting.
I would keep looking.
 
technically there are no parts available for older lathes other than getting used parts from other machines.

Unless there's been a recent change that I'm unaware of, ... new Monarch parts are readily available from the original manufacturer.

And to me, this is a very big deal.

But, if the Cholchester is a more appropriate size ..... I've always found them quite serviceable.


Generally, what's been said about tooling, is valid.

If you're going to try to find one machine that will do everything, ... well, good luck with that.

Personally, for small high-speed type work, I've found good little Hardinge lathes to be plentiful and inexpensive.


.
 
Unless there's been a recent change that I'm unaware of, ... new Monarch parts are readily available from the original manufacturer.

And to me, this is a very big deal.

Covered in another thread:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/monarch-photos-333441-post2956232/#post2956232

where the "Old Iron-ey" is that Monarch Lathe LP is NOT the OEM (Monarch Machine Tool was.. ), yet DOES manage to provide parts even that the MMT OEM had ceased to do as a matter of policy as much as practicality.

Monarch Lathe LP is a service organization, after all - and a good one.
 
colchesters in decent shape with a larger thru hole are nice..... otherwise monarch will be a better overall machine. My only gripe is the generally small through holes in them.
 
colchesters in decent shape with a larger thru hole are nice..... otherwise monarch will be a better overall machine. My only gripe is the generally small through holes in them.

Yes, that's the one thing that annoys me about my Monarch CY. 1-1/2" spindle bore is really small. It's the only reason I'm looking for a different machine, preferably a DS&G with taper attachment.

PDW
 
Unless there's been a recent change that I'm unaware of, ... new Monarch parts are readily available from the original manufacturer.

And to me, this is a very big deal.

But, if the Cholchester is a more appropriate size ..... I've always found them quite serviceable.


Generally, what's been said about tooling, is valid.

If you're going to try to find one machine that will do everything, ... well, good luck with that.

Personally, for small high-speed type work, I've found good little Hardinge lathes to be plentiful and inexpensive.


.
I have already called Clausing and they can get me any parts that I may need (that's a big deal to me also). Parts are high dollar from them but they are there. I'm planning to do medium to big size parts on what ever I get but need it to be able to take longer shafts than a Hardinge might be able to handle. I'm working on a 1922 model 12x5 Hendey and once it's going I can use it for some of the smaller parts.
 
I ran one of those Clausings you describe. Soft bed ways and carriage were worn so bad at the spindle end of bed that the apron had dropped due to wear causing the rack and pinion had minimal mesh and started shearing teeth. In a cut it would hesitate or stop then get going again as the pinion "clawed" it's way along the rack. Eventually you couldn't trust it to thread because the pinion would catch and jam the rack wrecking the threading operation. Many a time it would jam so bad that eventually the clutch/shear pin mechanism for the feed rod or screw would break. The spanner nut on the spindle was in the same condition you describe, beat to death from lots of hard use. Parts aren't available.
What you are describing are near scrap if you start investigating further I am suspecting.
I would keep looking.

I'm going to have to ask the man if he would move them apart to look closer at them. Right now the to Clausings are setting face to face and so close that the chip trays was almost touching.
 








 
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