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Collet identification, please

SteveM

Diamond
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Location
Wisconsin
I have this little collet and I can't find anything in any of the modern listings of collets (e.g. the current hardinge catalog).

Attached is a picture and a fabulous not-to-scale dimensioned drawing.

If you can't read my chicken scratch, the threads are 26tpi.

Steve
 

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Except for the threads, it is similar to a USA 10 mm watch lathe collet (picture below). Those have M10 x 1 buttress threads. I think the Swiss W10 collet has M10 x .75 buttress threads. The English Pultra collet has M10 x 1 V-threads.

The above collets with M10 threads will take 8.0 mm stock clear through. A .311 x 26 TPI thread would severely limit the bar capacity, possibly to 4 mm.

Bottom line is, I don't know what kind of collet you have.

Larry

Levin D collet drawing 1.JPG
 
We do appreciate the dimensioned drawing! About 90% of the "what type of collet is this?" threads start with an out of focus cellphone photo and absolutely no dimensional data, not even a blurry 6" rule placed 3" away from the collet at some random angle.
 
Bottom line is, I don't know what kind of collet you have.

Larry, you would have been my Obi-wan Kenobe on this - my only hope!

Steve

We do appreciate the dimensioned drawing! About 90% of the "what type of collet is this?" threads start with an out of focus cellphone photo and absolutely no dimensional data, not even a blurry 6" rule placed 3" away from the collet at some random angle.

I'm amazed at how many collets on ebay have no measurements or size references. I mean, they could at least have put a Coke can in with the standard warning "Coke can not included".

Steve
 
There were a potful of different "watch lathe" collets made. That is one type, but which and for what I do not know. The Goodrich book I have shows 20 or so types, unfortunately without dimension.
 
There were a potful of different "watch lathe" collets made..

Out of the pot like a lobster.
Dimensions:
OAL 1.827 to 1.900 (unfinished bore)
Body .398 ground finish and a held size
Major Diameter .605
Bore Diameter at threaded end .222 to .236
Bore Depth from threaded end 1.312 to 1.346
Threads .344 (+ - .004) x .360 L x 36 tpi
Taper Seat Length is straight over a length that varies from .200 to .125
Keyway 1/16" x 1/2" and about 0.024 deep
Watchmakers Collets 1.jpgWatchmakers Collets 2.jpg
Provenance is that they came with a 1896 Flather in a "pot" of parts.
Most are blanks. Probably do an electrolysis dip for a clean up at some time.
Have to look but I remember a drawbar and the holder for these somewhere.
John
 
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THOSE are a SPECIAL TYPE.... I forget the name and manufacturer.... but I do not think they are commonly found.

I need to look them up, but the trumpet shape indicates the type.

EDIT: Is the taper a continuous curve? Or does it flatten out? I can't decide from the pic. The one I am thinking of has a continuous curve.
 
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THOSE are a SPECIAL TYPE.... I forget the name and manufacturer.... but I do not think they are commonly found.

I need to look them up, but the trumpet shape indicates the type.

EDIT: Is the taper a continuous curve? Or does it flatten out? I can't decide from the pic. The one I am thinking of has a continuous curve.

The trumpet shape was the invention of Horace Moseley of Elgin, IL, who called it "conoidal." The only conoidal collets I have seen up to those pictures have 8 mm bodies and .275-40 threads. But there was a conoidal .400" body Moseley No. 3 collet. I have never seen one of those collets or the lathe they fit. Moseley made conventional conical nose collets with the same dimensions, and watch lathes to suit both kinds of collet. The design was popular enough for G. Boley in Germany to make copies of the Moseley lathes and collets, but the conoidal idea never caught on and disappeared. Moseley claimed to be the inventor of the "split wire chuck," which is now called a collet, like the 5C style, and that idea sure caught on.

Moseley was involved in making machines for the watch factory in Elgin, IL, much as American Watch Tool Co. people were involved in machines for the watch factory in Waltham, MA. Moseley lathes were still made into the 1950's, but were never as popular as the products of AWT and the numerous companies who copied them.

Here is a collet list from an early 20th Century Hardinge catalog. You can see the Moseley conical and conoidal watch lathe collets in the list.

Larry

collet list p1.jpg collet list p2.jpg
 
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Larry,

Good eyes seeing the "trumpet" shape. Interesting facts from your archive about Moseley and the conodial collet.
Hmm.........has a ring to it. Horace Mosely and the Conodial Collet.......by Dr. Seuss.

Thanks, John
 
The oldest book on American watch lathes, as far as I know, is The Watchmaker's Lathe by Ward Goodrich, published in 1903. It was reissued in 1952 with additions to update it with pictures of newer lathes and was in print for over twenty years later. Most of the book seems to be original 1903 text and pictures.

Goodrich mentions that C. S. Moseley, possibly a son of Horace Moseley, invented the conoidal form. They claimed it avoided cracking during heat treat and allowed greater accuracy in manufacture and in use. They also claim that imported versions are inferior. The only conoidal collets I have were made by Moseley and G. Boley (Germany). G. Boley is generally thought to be an excellent maker.

Another unusual feature of Moseley 8 mm collets is that they were designed for more flexibility than the more popular WW 8 mm collets. They have longer bodies and they have three extra blind slits between the threaded end and the cone (or conoid) located between the normal slits. I suppose they were meant to give a wider grip range than other designs. As I recall, not all Moseley collets have the extra slits. It may have been an idea that was not worth the extra cost of manufacture.

A 1947 catalog covering Moseley lathes and collets does not mention the conoidal version, but I don't know the exact year they stopped selling them.

Larry
 








 
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