Combined chuck/faceplate

How common is it ( - because there are very few images on Google)?

My Cardiff "Master" lathe came with a 3-jaw Pratt chuck fitted but as a 'spare' there was a weighty 12" Burnerd 4-jaw chuck.
It has a built-in L0 fitment but also there are 4 slots to take T-bolts.
With the jaws removed this turns the chuck into a faceplate.

Not cleaned it yet - so no photos at the moment.

Like this ? http://www.rotagriponline.com/index...tegory_id=239&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29

If so, quite common on the larger 4 jaw independent chucks, ......very handy as too, some times you can use a combo of angle plates or stop blocks etc etc and jaws.

Edited to delete my thoroughly duff description! Sorry.

Burnerd Type number cleaned up now = 42 L0
When I've summoned up the muscle power (it is a very weighty beast) to carry it in to the workbench, I'll clean it, weigh it and take a picture.

High price of the linked one is interesting though - especially as it is Chinese-made !

Not quite sure when Burnerd ceased to be an entity but the "Master" lathe was possibly new to a Company established in 1963. Chuck might well be earlier.
Again, I've yet to find definitive dates for Cardiff "Major" serial numbers or indeed the from-to dates of production.
If it helps anyone with 'inside' knowledge - my machine is number 885.

BTW I doubt Tony Griffiths could help - he hasn't replied to/acknowledged a recent friendly email I sent to him nearly 3 weeks ago.

UK lathe said:

Not quite sure when Burnerd ceased to be an entity

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Pratt Burnerd are still going strong - factory in Liversedge and probably other places. Part of the 600 group.

You can also use the T slots for added clamping when working with odd parts. I had a recurring job at the chrome shop that involved chrome plating large seal wear rings for hydro turbines. These rings were about 28" OD, 26" ID and about 14" wide. They had to be chromed and then ground to specified size, with OD and ID concentric to a given spec and, of course, to a given diameter, with a given amount of chrome thickness, and everything was minutely inspected by the customer before it left the shop. Only way to work them was to inside chuck them. Problem was that they were so thin (1" thick) and such a large diameter, that the ring would distort if you tightened the chuck enough to hold them securely, given the length and weight.

Solution was to chuck them VERY gently and then put T nuts in the chuck slots and use mill clamps to hold the rings to the chuck. The chuck jaws were used only for alignment... Once you got the ring dialed in on the ID and OD to where they were close enough to concentric to leave enough thickness on the chrome, you tightened the mill clams securely, and the mill clamps held the work and prevented distortion.

I have no idea how they made any money on this job. The only machine we could do this on was a pretty rough chinese 32" lathe. Used a toolpost grinder. Took about three days to grind one ring and we had like nine of them to do.

billmac said:

Pratt Burnerd are still going strong - factory in Liversedge and probably other places. Part of the 600 group.

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Yes ..... Was really interested to know "When Burnerd ceased to be an entity ?".
Or in plain English - when they were bought out/amalgamated ?
Sorry if that wasn't clear billmac.

FWIW I am a bit wary of 'transferred' trade names. In the UK we have a few examples of old traditional English manufacturers that have gone bust - trade name bought - and then 'applied' to imported items (often Chinese). Goes hand-in-glove with Germanic sounding trade names also stuck on new Chinese goods.

Mike C.

Interesting use.

Have now carried it in and started cleaning, looks as though it has not been mechanically abused - just left covered in old oil for 30+ years !!

Pratt and Burnerd were two separate co's Pratt's bought Burnerds in 1955 and became Pratt Burnerd Ltd in 1970 - part of the 600 group

Ref F. Pratt and Co - Graces Guide

And F. Burnerd and Co - Graces Guide

As well as for clamping these T slots are really useful for bolting steel bocks on to push the work up to ,they can be faced off to get them dead true and allow even heavier cuts to be taken as everything is that much more solid ,I would consider this type of chuck to be normal above about 12".

Thanks for history. And perhaps I WON'T sell it to pay for the lathe !
Just clean it, lubricate it and store carefully.
I see that the weight of a Taiwanese SB equivalent is about 50 lbs so weight is not surprising at all.

Been cleaning off solidified grease/oil.
Serial number stamped on rear rim of body is 3866 - same number is also stamped on all 4 jaws.

Whilst continuing to clean the parts - any advice on correct removal of what look like the 4 circular 'blanking plugs' on rear of Burnerd body and giving access to the 'jaw screw pins' ?
They all have a thread tapped in the centre but are all empty - no grubscrews or similar.

Those blanking plugs are the bridles that hold the screws in place, they're a very very close fit in the chuck body, and the tapped holes are to put a bit of studding etc in to draw them out, (use a bit of tube and a washer)

Sometimes the need a bit of help from the other side with a thin brass punch and SMALL hammer, but BE VERY CAREFULthe bridle that goes over the screws are usually dead hard and will break if maltreated, ...........the same goes for putting them back the ears of the bridle HAVE to be in exactly right place radially, you can't rely on the screw correcting any misalignment!

Unless it's rusted up, I would soak the whole chuck in a tray of diesel etc etc for a few days to soften the grease, then scrub and wash it out as best I could, without stripping the chuck.

Really useful info. Many thanks. And thanks for the warning.
Luckily not rusted up - so will ponder that method of cleaning rather than total dismantle.

Forgot to add - thanks for the correct UK terminology - "bridles".
I think I picked up 'jaw screw pins' from a South Bend Taiwanese chuck manual ...

BTW - For anyone attempting removal on older Burnerd chucks like mine, the tapped threads
are 5/16" Whitworth.

UK lathe said:

Forgot to add - thanks for the correct UK terminology - "bridles"..

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I wouldn't take that as gospel, that's only what my old mentor called them and I don't know the ''official'' name of the part.

Here is the 24" 8 tee slot four jaw pretending its a face plate