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Winches, steam operated

AAB

Banned
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Location
Melbourne,Australia
The following pics are also from Sovereign Hill,Ballarat, Victoria,

The first 4 are the winding engine, in the same room as the Cornish beam pump, & the last 2 are " improvers ",..outside in the weather!!

Winch001.jpg

Winch002.jpg

Winch003.jpg

Winch004.jpg

Winch005.jpg

Winch006.jpg


The stamp battery will be next.

Regards from Melbourne,Australia,

AAB
 
A question about the restored winding engine, any ideas what the large pipe is coming from the centre of the cylinder? I wonder if it is something to do with jacket heating? I am guessing it isn't a uniflow! I see the Ruston pumping engine has the same thing. Seems strange to bring the exhaust steam out the top?

And anyone know how the two drums work? I wonder if they can be clutched independently, as they each seem to have their own brake, and possibly those large cylinder-operated toggles work a clutch? Maybe they could then work different shafts/levels, but it sounds like a handful.

[ 11-10-2007, 05:14 AM: Message edited by: Peter S ]
 
Thanks for posting these pictures, AAB.

I wonder what they do at the engine maker’s old premises, 42 Cadogan St., now? Probably occupied by Starbucks, a clothes shop, or a compensation lawyer‘s luxurious offices. Presumably that was the office address, rather than the factory? We’ll have to get our Glasgow member to go and have a look, and erect a blue plaque commemorating its former use.

I hadn’t noticed the fact that the drums could be declutched until Peter pointed the feature out (I would imagine the operating cylinders use air rather than steam). I assume that the drums normally move in unison - looking at the ropes, one is paying off the drum as the other is coming on. Counting the number of turns, and guesstimating the diameter of the drum, I assume the mineshaft was about 250 ft deep?

I was surprised to see that the ropes aren’t constrained in helical grooves, to prevent them overlapping and potentially snatching. However, I’ve been looking at photos of other similarly-sized engines, and they have plain drums as well.

I’ve also looked at some of the superb Fowler archive photos on the M.E.R.L. website, and these might be of interest:-

This is a complete set of portable equipment for a small mine:-

http://vios1.rdg.ac.uk/olib/images/nof/fowler/photos/tr_fow_ph2_1/199.jpg

Both cables go to one drum. Also, note the unoccupied crank, driven by gears at low speed, probably intended for operating a reciprocating pump like the one in AAB’s Cornish engine post.

Here’s a similar machine with two drums with big hand clutch levers:-

http://vios1.rdg.ac.uk/olib/images/nof/fowler/photos/tr_fow_ph2_1/111.jpg

Another one with a single drum and a clutch. Simple controls - regulator in the dome, reversing lever, and ratcheted foot brake for the drum:-

http://vios1.rdg.ac.uk/olib/images/nof/fowler/photos/tr_fow_ph2_1/132.jpg

Source:-
http://www.ruralhistory.org/the_collections/the_archives/trade_records.php#TRFOW
 
Well one thing is for sure you guys in Australia certainly keep old Scottish winding engines cleaner & more lovingly cared for than the dongo,s who are in charge of them in Scotlands museums, Strewth mates does the sheilas polish them while you lot are drinking your Fosters? :D
However back to the engine & less hilarity! I have been giving your photograph some solitary brain cell excercises, Upon looking at photograph Nos two and three, above the drums one can see a pair of depth indicators, This tells me that both drums can be operated independantly, This could be for a) setting one of the drums to wind from a different level than the other,
b) Only wind from one side of the shaft at a time leaving the sister drum de-clutched and the brake engaged on her side.
c) Can both brakes be operated independantly or together. if winding with both drums together is required?.
d) Is there two sets of shaft signalling gear ( one from each shaft side) to this engine If it was different levels ?
e)Could this engine be second hand to that shaft, And have originally been a big Main & Tail Haulage, or a sinking engine from a previous mine complex?

Looking at the photographs this simple engine is interesting & nicely finished The exhaust is taken from the exhaust steam port to an "external cast hollow belt" on the outside of the cylinder casting It is most likely that at the underside of the cylinder casting is a steam exhaust flange, Blank flanged off, And the cylinder exhaust flange at the top of the cylinders are being utilised to take the exhaust sraight up through the engine house roof,Both on the left and right engines, For a different layout bottom exhaust can simply be arranged
FRom the photographs, i have a hunch we have an example of "badge engineering" Looking at the general design of this little engine its features are Scottish i believe it may be manufactured by our old friends Murray & Paterson, of Coatbridge, (whom i have mentioned before), a prolific builder of a lot of little engines of that type, for mining duties, many being sub contract to mining suppliers etc. I have heard of John Donald & Co, before, I believe they may have been machine factors, or mining engineering consultants,
Cadogan Street Glasgow is bounded on the North side by Bothwell Street & on the South side by Argyle Street, This was very much a part of the commercial area of that great city, I will try and find out more data on this firm, as soon as , I also know that M&P, used to make similar engines for another Glasgow firm, William Martin & Co, even to the disc cranks They also built a pair of engines, not unlike the engine illustrated for Anderson Boyes & Co for duties at the Cumnock Coalfield.
 
Further information on John Donald Ltd 42 _46 Cadogan Street Glasgow, Has just been given to me 5 minutes ago, by a good friend of mine Mr John Hume, possibly the most prolific Industrial historian for the West of Scotland,From 1924_25 Post Office Directory, It would seem that the firm of John Donald Ltd were merchants and factors for various items,Such as Iron & Steel, Horseshoe nails, Foundry Bellows, Iron split Pulleys, Bolts & Nuts Etc & it would seem engines! When he refreshed my memory, i remembered it, had a large arched entrance had been sold to another firm of metal merchants, And now the building has all been "tastefully revamped" for multi office use, I will see if i can find any other info, Does anyone know, when the Sovereign hill engine was installed?
 








 
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