Diamond Tool Company B-12 milling machine April 4 2017

romvlvs771 · Apr 4, 2017

My name is Sergio, I am new to machining and this is my 1st Milling Machine.

Recently I bought a Diamond Tool Company B-12 milling machine.

I have it running and just ran into an issue, maybe someone could shed some light to resolving this issue. This is a horizontal machine with the vertical arm is set and there is a Jacobs #32 3/8 tapered chuck in there I was milling a piece of aluminum and 2 hours into the job the tapered chuck came loose.

Now when I push the chuck back into the tapered shaft, back in I seems to stay but when I attempt to mill again as soon as the milling bit starts to work on cutting the chuck slips off.

My questions are:

How do I remove the taper shaft where the chuck slips into?
(I did remove the screw that apears to be holding the taper rod, but it sitll did not come out)

What options do I have to add new cutting bits, I would like to go to a 1/2" tapered chuck as I have larger bits?

Also does anyone know of a manual for this B-12 ?

I have included some pictures, any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank You,

Sergio

JBoogie · Apr 4, 2017

Don't use a drill chuck for milling!

romvlvs771 · Apr 4, 2017

That is how I got the machine, I am looking to remove it and for other options that vertical head can host to use the milling bits, also I believe that drill chucks are threaded as they spin in only one direction and the tapered chucks are used in both lathes and milling machines.

Scottl · Apr 4, 2017

romvlvs771 said:
That is how I got the machine, I am looking to remove it and for other options that vertical head can host to use the milling bits, also I believe that drill chucks are threaded as they spin in only one direction and the tapered chucks are used in both lathes and milling machines.

That hex shaped piece at the top of the spindle appears to be the drawbar that holds the chuck adapter in. Usually that is loosened (like a bolt) a full turn or two and then rapped with a soft faced hammer to unseat the taper, then it is unscrewed completely and the tool holder drops out. It might be double acting, where after being unscrewed partially a secondary thread jacks the taper apart. If you unscrew it completely and that doesn't happen just thread it back in until snug, back off, and give the top a whack.

Once the piece is out you will need to identify the taper and then try to find some collets or end mill holders. The guys here can help if you post photos and some measurements.

jdavi581 · Apr 4, 2017

Drill chucks are only for drilling. You need to figure out how to remove it. I would loosen the nut on top of the head and tap on it with a soft hammer. The chuck should pop out with arbor. You need to measure the arbor and get some end mill holders to start out. Do not use the chuck for milling, you will only damage it and possibly injure yourself. The last user of this machine used it as a drill press. This is useful for drilling, but you need more tooling to mill.
Joe

rusty old tools · Apr 4, 2017

This machine used a b&s no. 9 taper, but you have a vertical head and I'm unsure if the taper is the same as the horizontal spindle, but there's a good chance it is, follow the advice of others and loosen the the draw bar (bolt head on top) and knock out your drill chuck arbor, then see if it fits in your horizontal spindle, if it fits then you know you have a b&s (brown and sharp) no.9 taper, then go looking on eBay or wherever and find a few collets or end mill holders in that size and use those, you may even find some taper shank end mills that you can use without a collet or holder directly in the spindle.

I have a diamond b12 I picked up a short while back, I've so far been unable to find a manual for it.

Edit: I looked in a pdf copy I have of a sales brochure for this machine, it looks like you have an original vertical head as supplied by diamond tool co, the brochure says the vertical head took a b&s no 7 taper. I will look and see if I can find a link to the brochure.

rusty old tools · Apr 4, 2017

Here ya go Diamond Machine Tool Co. - Publication Reprints - Diamond Machine Tool Co B-12 Milling Machine | VintageMachinery.org

romvlvs771 · Apr 4, 2017

Thank You All, you have been a great help.
I did as you suggested:
Turned the drawbar 2 turns to the left
Tapped it with a rubber mallet 2 times
Unscrewed the drawbar all the way until it came out.
Then the chuck holder came out, 2 pieces, the holder and the tap that attaches by pressure to the Jacobs 32 chuck.

I have attached several pictures, any recommendations on what mill holders I need?
(rusty old tools, sent a link and it does mention b&s no. 9 taper)

B12_Milling_Machine_Arbor_that_held_Jacobs32_Chuck_1.jpg

Thank You,
Sergio

JohnEvans · Apr 5, 2017

First off a rubber hammer is NOT what you want to use for unseating a B&S taper ,a light sharp rap with a 16oz steel hammer is much more effect. Second being your chuck adapter came out as 2 pieces and the first picture shows a collet with the splits ,what you have is a collet and a straight shank drill arbor. Measure the large and small diameters of the arbor and we can tell you what size B&S it is.Measure the larger dia. at the line on it where it was seated in the spindle.
PS measure only the tapered area not the smaller straight area.

partsproduction · Apr 5, 2017

Here are the best B&S collets in the world some of us think, they certainly have more experience than anyone else making them;
https://shophardinge.com/productGrid.aspx?catID=1789

You might look into a B&S/ER32 holder that is sized for your vertical spindle, because ER32 collets are everywhere and much cheaper than B&S collets.

Chknives · Apr 5, 2017

Most people I've seen use dead blows to unseat them as it won't cause damage to the drawbar overtime as a steel hammer would. Especially a 16 oz hammer... I'd highly recommend a acquiring a dead blow hammer. Good for a lot of things in the shop.

partsproduction · Apr 5, 2017

I used to use a brass hammer, you want the shock of a solid material, a deadblow kind of defeats the shock. But since I bought an air powered drawbar tool none of that matters. Occasionally a collet will be stuck, in which case I smack the rattlegun down hard on the drawbar top, similar to what a hammer does.
Util today I've never heard of using a deadblow for drawbars, but then I live out in the country.

wdTom · Apr 5, 2017

I welded a thick washer to a box end wrench, then with a flathead screw through the washer I attached a piece of maybe 1" brass rod for a combination wrench/hammer. Works great and doesn't damage the soft steel drawbar I made when mine stripped some years ago.

Riderusty · Apr 5, 2017

That looks like a Porter-Cable vertical head. I have one in my Burke mill that takes #7 B&S collets. Given the size of your mill I would guess your is the same. These were aftermarket milling heads that were made in a number of sizes and are installed in place of the overarm on horizontal mills.

As stated earlier in this post, do not use a drill chuck for milling-it is only designed to take a downward thrust used in drilling. You show the drawbar and Jacobs adapter that was inserted in place of a collet or end mill with B&S taper that would be threaded to attach to the drawbar.

Tom B.

romvlvs771 · Apr 5, 2017

Yes it looks like mines:

Can I use both collets and mill holders?

Another question about this Porter-Cable vertical head, does it need to be lubricated, if so what type of lubricant?

Thank You,

Sergio

Riderusty · Apr 5, 2017

Sergio, as long as whatever you put in there has the correct taper and is threaded to accept your drawbar, it can be used. The unit does need to be oiled before each use and has several oil holes--these are just small open holes in the castings, not Gits type oil cups or ball oilers. I use the same spindle oil (Vactra #2) as used on the machine itself.

Tom B.

jdavi581 · Apr 5, 2017

Hello,
use the same process to remove what appears to be another collet that is mounted in the horizontal arbor. Hopefully these are the same taper.
Joe

romvlvs771 · Apr 5, 2017

Tom,

Are you referring to the Porter-Cable vertical head, I am assuming there are gears in there, there are also 4 screws do I need to remove them to add oil inside?

"The unit does need to be oiled before each use"

Rudd · Apr 5, 2017

I've got one of those heads as well. Like the man said, there are small oil holes on the outside of the head. When I got my head, they were plugged up. Some damfool had filled the thing up with grease. I took the head apart and ran a fine stiff wire through the holes and cleaned out all the grease.
That's the Porter Cable MkII model I think, takes B&S No. 7. 1/2" shank endmill is as big as you can go with B&S 7 taper as far as I know.
On mine, the original drawbar was 5/16" threaded. The head would not pass a 3/8" drawbar, which is what modern B&S 7 collets take. Solution was to make a drawbar with 3/8" threads on the bottom, a reduced shank, and thread the top for a 5/16" nut. So the drawbar has to be inserted from the bottom, which is backwards from normal practice, but it works.
I wouldn't drop a big wad of cash on Hardinge collets for that thing, I'd just get some imports for now, you can get a full set for a bit over 100 dollars.

When you get tired of the slow metal removal you'll get with that head, turn your head sideways and try out that horizontal spindle. Did you happen to get the overarm/outboard arbor support/ and maybe an arbor? You can slap move some metal with these things with horizontal mill cutters.

romvlvs771 · Apr 6, 2017

I have confirmed it is a No.7 B.& S.Taper this one is a 1/2" Collet as you can see in the picture I have attached a 1/2" milling bit and the drawbar is 5/16" as stated by Rudd.

Does anyone know where I can get more of these Collets and Mill holders that will fit my 5/16" drawbar, if you have some send me a PM ?

Thank You,

Sergio

Diamond Tool Company B-12 milling machine April 4 2017

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