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Die-cast zinc alloy history question

magneticanomaly

Titanium
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
On Elk Mountain, West Virginia, USA
Die-cast zinc is not my favorite material, but these days seems to work okay in some applications, like Wisconsin engine governor weights, and carburetor bodies.

But in my experience, the earliest such alloys failed completely, literally crumbled away, apparently by some type of intergranular corrosion . I once replicated in a moden Zamak alloy (by lost-wax casting) some crumbling door handles for some collector's car from the 1920's. My 1931 Farmall tractor's original oil-filter base was replaced long before I acquired it, presumably for the same reason.

Can anyone tell me what the before-and-after alloy compositions were that transformed zinc from fall-apart to the fairly successful material it is today? How about when the improvement was made? The question occurred to me when I was trying recently to assign a maximum age to a part made of one of the "successful" alloys.

Thanks!
 
Die-cast zinc is not my favorite material, but these days seems to work okay in some applications, like Wisconsin engine governor weights, and carburetor bodies.

But in my experience, the earliest such alloys failed completely, literally crumbled away, apparently by some type of intergranular corrosion . I once replicated in a moden Zamak alloy (by lost-wax casting) some crumbling door handles for some collector's car from the 1920's. My 1931 Farmall tractor's original oil-filter base was replaced long before I acquired it, presumably for the same reason.

Can anyone tell me what the before-and-after alloy compositions were that transformed zinc from fall-apart to the fairly successful material it is today? How about when the improvement was made? The question occurred to me when I was trying recently to assign a maximum age to a part made of one of the "successful" alloys.

Thanks!

You have very nearly answered your own question.

Just look up the now long history of the amazing success of the ZAMAK family of alloys. "Wiki" even.

Mostly look at why it is different from older, lesser "white metal" alloys. The hint is in the very letters of its name. Zinc needed help. It got that help from clever use of OTHER metals in the Alloying.

Not "perfect" by any means, ZAMAK, but very useful stuff, and it is all around us, kitchen appliances, bathroom 'extras', lab gear housings, lawnmower, motorcycle, ATV/RV, boating, snowmobile, automotive, yadda, yadda.

The goal, BTW, was not to last forever. Rather to get to ZERO need of post-casting machining so it was cheap enough replacement was cheap, too. Quite often, they do exactly that - hardly needs touched.
 
Thanks for the great links! Question answered, but clearly the transition is not very useful for dating, since apparently susceptible (Pb contaminated) alloys were still in use 30 years after the 1929 discovery of the solution.

Also very interesting to read the huge difference between short-term tensile strength of the Zn alloys (40-58KSI) and their fatigue limits (6000-8000PSI)

Thanks!
 
Find yourself a copy of the book Die Casting by H.H. Dohler. It tells the history of die casting and what it took to make it a reliable product.
 
Thanks for the great links! Question answered, but clearly the transition is not very useful for dating, since apparently susceptible (Pb contaminated) alloys were still in use 30 years after the 1929 discovery of the solution.

Also very interesting to read the huge difference between short-term tensile strength of the Zn alloys (40-58KSI) and their fatigue limits (6000-8000PSI)

Thanks!

LOL! Well. MOST of us have had waaaay more firsthand experience of both that we ever would have wished for!

Even so, ZAMAK has made possible a great many things we'd never have been able to otherwise afford. Widespread benefit & savings on the less-critical goods are part of how we can afford to see that better materials still go where better materials must go.

I almost cringe when I hear someone describe ZAMAK as "pot metal". Few "moderns" have the least understanding of just how BAD some of the actual "pot metal" alloys really were!

Pragmatism, not politics, in metallurgy.

:)
 
i believe pewter was more common than zinc aluminum based alloys long ago. zinc was harder to get in metallic form (more recent technology) and aluminum was even harder where the aluminum on top of washington momumet was more valuable than gold at the time
.
nobody said any alloy would last forever especially in wet saltwater environments. if you were casting bullets in lead it was not much a transition to do other stuff with similar alloys. some tin and or lead alloys were plated to last longer. or painted.
.
but many alloys never going to be like stainless steel or silver. just cheaper and easier to get and work with
 
I briefly worked at a place years ago where they spun cast "pot metal"; all lead based alloys, however, no zinc. One of the problems is as the pot sits and cooks all day long, the metal on the surface oxidizes, forming a layer of "dross", which unless care is taken, can cause slag inclusions. A not so obvious problem is the different components of the alloy oxidize at different rates, so if the pot is large and the parts small, the composition of the alloy will change over time.

I found the article on Zamak trying to refresh my memory of an anecdote I was told long ago, but didn't find a reference. It seems the old time casters would judge the temperature of their pot by throwing a bit of "tinfoil" from their (cigarette pack, snuff container, that's the part I can't remember) into the pot and watch how quickly it melted. Now, "tinfoil" has been made of lots of things over the years, so who knows what they were adding to the alloy. The point is, pot metal casting, into either rubber or steel molds, is extremely low tech, with a low cost of entry... and low cost places tend to not spend money on QC of the metallurgy.

Dennis
 
Another big issue with Zinc casting alloys is creep. Under stress and temperature, a zinc part will gradually change its dimensions. This was pointed to me with early 1950's motor starter terminals that would loosen over a period of a year or two and cause fires. Another was/is with oven temperature controls changing calibration or failing.

Tom
 
Might be in the article, but he lead made the material fill molds better... more fluid. So unless you said not to, they might get your production out by tossing in lead to make it go easier with fewer molding rejects.
 
you buy scrap metal you often do not know exactly what you bought
.
i was melting aluminum once and i lift furnace lid and metal burning with bright white light. dig groove in dirt with my foot and pour and still burning and cover metal with more dirt still burning. turns out 1/2 the "aluminum" was really magnesium. oops looks the same really hard to tell difference
 
The point is, pot metal casting, into either rubber or steel molds, is extremely low tech, with a low cost of entry... and low cost places tend to not spend money on QC of the metallurgy.

Lower tech than most remember. One could gravity-cast "pot" metal atop a kitchen stove, the "pot" a re-purposed cast-iron "Dutch Oven" most homes still had in their kitchens. Mold could be as simple as a cavity carved into charred wood, cuttlefish bone for the perfectionist, plaster of Paris (Gypsum) made by the 'several' from a rubber buck for multiple "identical" units.

Within my own time on watch that young kids could still cast their own "tin" soldiers in a heavily Leaded, if not nearly pure Lead alloy.

Adult or child, we were generally far less aware in that day of the hazards of lead and leaded products than shooters who still-yet cast very nearly pure lead balls, Minie balls, wadcutters and other bullets in (usually) steel gang-molds.

Didn't really SEEM "low tech" at the time, either. "Exotic stuff", and borderline magical, rather!

Wrong time and place to get into what transpires next. When a precocious ten-year-old FINALLY convinces his parents he is worthy of a coveted "AC Gilbert Chemistry kit".. then realizes from his Dad's old College Chemistry texts that he doesn't have NEAR enough of the wherewithal to make his own Trinitrotoluene. And will have to simply make more Nitric acid on his own resources. Wasn't hard. Nor even expensive. Just tedious.

It is a wonder many of us survived to still today have a chance of someday arriving at adulthood.

:)
 
It's been my understanding that many of the failures of the original zamak were due to the mix being not quite right or having been contaminated, I have one of those little unmentionable "A" machines where it's all held up over the years, built in 1936-37, others however have not had such luck.
 
Thanks for the great links! Question answered, but clearly the transition is not very useful for dating, since apparently susceptible (Pb contaminated) alloys were still in use 30 years after the 1929 discovery of the solution.

Also very interesting to read the huge difference between short-term tensile strength of the Zn alloys (40-58KSI) and their fatigue limits (6000-8000PSI)

Thanks!

Back in the day zinc alloy castings were often referred to as "pot metal" which was an inference to poor alloy control, often melting scrap of unknown composition for reuse.

PS - Some years back I worked at a company that did its own in-house zinc alloy casting to control quality. They used only ingots of a specified composition and some of their products exist outside for decades without serious deterioration. AFAIK everything, or nearly everything they supply is still Made in USA right here in Massachusetts. The only "scrap" they ever use is fresh castings with defects, usually from the start of a production run.
 
The "pot metal" disintegration that causes the most angst is where antique car and truck parts fall to pieces,and the casting was/is a prominent part of the body trim .Especially a large grille.In my experience most of the problem is caused by a subsequent electroplating "chroming" of the alloy.In other words the acids and cyanide continue to attack the metal,and also another contender would be electroytic action caused by moisture attack on the plating.Replating zamak is a sure fire way to wreck it.Looks good to begin with ,then powders in months.
 
Back in the day zinc alloy castings were often referred to as "pot metal" which was an inference to poor alloy control, often melting scrap of unknown composition for reuse.
Actually is was a reference to the PROCESS. Real "pots" were, in fact, used. Or had previously been.

The process came to be associated with poor quality only later. It did not HAVE to be such. Too many folks took advantage of its "forgiving" nature, cut corners, ruined it for the rest. The "pot" process itself can be used even with very costly metals, not just Zinc-derived alloys.

Not that it would ever be a match to precise pressure die-casting, yet-today, best of alloys and skill. But still. Not all parts need that nor could afford the up-front costs.
 
If I recall correctly, in the 1920's, die casting really took off. This was due to the need for mass produced parts for automobiles, which were also "coming into their own". One big firm, known as Doehler-Jarvis, made a lot of the die castings for the automobile as well as other industries. D-J had plants in Detroit, possibly Toledo, a few other midwest locations and one in Brooklyn, NY. D-J used to run ads showing how they eliminated auto parts made by sand casting & machining or by machining from solid stock and replaced them with zinc-alloy die castings. D-J's adds used to show things like hand throttle and spark advance lever assemblies, ignition system parts and carburetor bodies. The other thing that kicked the development and use of die cast zinc alloys into high gear was the rapid growth in the production and use of home appliances. In the 1920's, as homes got electricity, things we take for granted like vacuum cleaners, toasters, radios and washing machines all began to be mass produced. Die casting made a lot of this possible. Look at an upright vacuum cleaner from the 1920's or 30's, and there is a mix of sand cast aluminum for the main housings and a lot of die castings. I've parted out a few of these old upright vacuums to re-use the blower for forge blowers. I am always intrigued by the way those vacuums were built- so much better than the plastic disposables of today. The sand cast casings are heavy enough, and the lighter and more decorative or intricate parts are die castings. The vacuum cleaner makers or the die casting companies must have figured things out, because 80-90 years later, the parts are all in good shape with no degradation or breakdown of the metals used.


Thinking back on the use of die cast zinc alloys, I know I took it for granted. On the older cars and light trucks, parts like carburetor bodies, fuel pump bodies, along with things like windshield wiper gear cases and gearing (or the old "Trico" vacuum wiper motors) along with door handles, knobs and so much more were all made with die cast zinc alloys. For the most part, these parts held up well over time. I do recall some old car parts that were turning kind of black and crumbling, and being told that "it's pot metal... it breaks down over time". At Brooklyn Tech HS, in our freshman year, we took a course called "Industrial Processes". We studied, amongst other things, most of the common metals- where and how the ores were mined, concentrated and produced into usable form. This included die casting. I learned quickly enough that "pot metal" was something of a misnomer, since die cast zinc alloys were (usually) carefully made from known metals in known quantities.

I think the Zamak parts used on those unmentionable "A" lathes were, in many cases, too light duty for the service they were put to. Where other manufacturers used cast iron or steel gears or bronze half nuts, the unmentionable "A" used Zamak. It eliminated a lot of machining and allowed their lathes to be sold for a very low price.
Unfortunately for the owners of such machines, what worked well for gearing and parts in home appliances or light-duty parts of automobiles was not going to hold up in service on a machine tool given any hard use.

In the case of Magnetic Anomaly's tractor oil filter base and auto parts, my guess is the fact these parts were as old as they were might have meant two factors were at work: early attempts at die casting might have been done by a firm not willing to pay a licensing fee (which would have been typical) to the firm(s) holding the rights and "secret formulas) to Zamak, or similar alloys. This resulted in an attempt to duplicate the alloys and it may have missed the mark. The other factor is weather and electrolytic action. Die casting alloys contain zinc. On a Farmall engine, much of it is out in the open or partially so. The weather can get to it. Snow-melt water trickling down or rain blowing onto the engine might collect between the engine block (cast iron) and the filter base (die cast zinc). The high zinc content in the diecast part would then act as a "sacrificial anode" and begin to break down. Paint that was on the engine block and filter base might have weathered and peeled, exposing bare metal. On auto door handles, the makers sometimes used a plastic shim or insulating gasket between the handle and the steel car body. My Dad had a 1952 and 1954 Chevy, and I cannot recall the insulating shims between the exterior door handles and hood ornament and the steel body. The result was after a few years, the chrome plated door handles got kind of cratered pitting. I have a Mack Bulldog off an old Mack truck tractor mounted on top of a big Cummins diesel piston crown. The Bulldog was given me by a trucker who probably logged a million miles looking down the road between that Bulldog's ears. The Bulldog is well travelled, and his skin is pocked with those same kind of pits and craters, but he is still quite intact otherwise. I tend to think a combination of road salt and water formed a strong electrolyte that did its work on dissimilar metalsin the form of die cast zinc and steel or iron parts, whether in the case of the Mack Bulldog or automobile parts.

Attempts to replicate Zamak without exact knowledge of the alloy contents and possibly some data as to the process of making it might account for the "crumbling" of older die cast parts.
 
One big firm, known as Doehler-Jarvis, made a lot of the die castings for the automobile as well as other industries. D-J had plants in Detroit, possibly Toledo, a few other midwest locations and one in Brooklyn, NY


Dohler - Jarvis was based in Toledo Ohio with two plants Smeed Ave and Detroit ave. There was also a plants in Brooklyn NY and Batavea NY, And Pottstown Penn.

It was founded in Brooklyn NY in 1907 and moved to Toledo in 1914

For more of the correct history :https://www.utoledo.edu/library/canaday/HTML_findingaids/MSS-202.html
 
Some main-stream manufacters of the 20s has this problem, for example Atwater Kent of radio fame. He
replaced the original brass pulleys on his sets with gray metal ones. They're amazing to see when you get one
of those radios. They're typically in one piece, but just barely. Apparently not a contamination issue, but rather
the alloy used, as literally all of them have turned to crumbles.
 
I have a IBM time clock that was made about 1915 the entire printing mechanism is made out of some sort of die-cast metal. I took it out of the case and it looks like a meteorite.
 








 
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