Does anyone recognize this lathe

According to the seller it's a PDF lathe but I cant find any info about PDF lathes.
I think the tail-stock looks a bit strange.








I asked for better pictures.

That's a very unusual bed , seems to be an open dovetail design not something i've seen before (you might send pics to Tony at lathes .co .uk)

I'd guess East German or Eastern European (from somewhere beyond the iron curtain)

Another odd thing: It appears to be a plain-turning lathe (I don't see a carriage traversing handle) and yet it has a gear case and a stop rod/ lever so is there a hidden lead screw somewhere?

Bill

Edit: We could do with pictures of the various plaques on the top and sides. It is massively strong casting for such a small lathe (lots of cross bracing etc.)

I doubt the base is original - seems too big for the lathe

Interesting how the tail-stock is off set to get around the long top-slide (again suggesting it is a plain turning lathe - so why the gear case???)

I also noticed the strange bed design And I also have my doubts about the stand. I looks to wide for the lathe.
At first I thought the tailstock came from another machine but now I'm not sure anymore.
It looks like the chuck is above the rear way and that could be the reason for that massive tailstock offset.
There seems to be some part missing maybe even an apron.
There are some change gears inside the stand among some rusty tooling.
The plaque between the doors is form a Dutch reseller.

Have you seen the lathe in person or only in photographs?

I wonder if the lead screw /apron for carriage etc. are on the back side of the bed (I can't imagine why but...)

Bill

>>It looks like the chuck is above the rear way and that could be the reason for that massive tailstock offset.
Yes you're right, the spindle is off set to the rear by quite some distance - Really interesting design :-)

BTW I'm having second thoughts about the stand, there appears to be an indent or 'island' about the correct depth (width) for the lathe's base and another towards the rear which would suggest the stand is the correct one (it may be just an optical illusion however.. we need better pictures :-))

I'm starting to think that someone made a Frankenlathe.

UberPrutser said:

I'm starting to think that someone made a Frankenlathe.

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Klompen-Kobbled or as-factory-built, I can't detect any redeeming virtue left in it - if there ever was to begin with.

Can't save 'em all. I say off to the smelter with it so a better machine may have its TLC ration.

Bill

No, not a frankenlathte at all but, i think, something very unusual.

more later...

I think it is all pretty much 'right'. That is, the stand and most of the parts are all from the same lathe. There's a traveling steady that looks like a standard chinese part in the cupboard, but has the same finger mechanism as the fixed steady ( that is clearly arse-about-face on the bed). There are a few other parts that look like they'd fit on the rear of the bed (and tail-stock) but what their function is is anyones guess ATM.

The Speed change placard clearly shows the huge pulleys for high and low speeds , confirming, to me, that the stand was made for the lathe.

Obviously it's not Eastern European, but Dutch (odd that the 'made in holland' is in english [edit] I guess it was made late 1940's to early 1950's so the UK would have been the target market )

It is a screw cutting lathe (very evident from the change gear placard) and that the lead screw is missing* from between the dovetails of the bed. The lever at the front of the cross-slide is the half nut engage (and possibly the carriage lock as well) . The mention of a 127T gear means that the lead-screw (and probably both slides) are imperial (inch) [confirming target market was likely the UK)

The high top speed of 3175 rpm , the notch in the tailstock barrel to give a fudical mark for the quill, nicely rounded and chamfered T slots in the cross-slide and massive construction suggests a quality product.


* (I cannot make out if the 'half nuts' are threaded or if they are just a clamp, it is just possible that the threaded section of the lead screw would be hidden under the headstock and only a plain bar emerge from underneath, allowing the carriage to be clamped at any point [edit] There is a blue part in the cupboard that looks like it could mount to the rear of the bead and act as a guide for such a bar )

There appears to be a complete set of change-gears in the cupboard and red box (the box also has the tumbler reverse lever and, hopefully has its gears still attached.

edit: I wonder how many were made? not more than a handful I'd guess. In which case, this could easily be the only one left.

One for a museum not the smelter!


Bill

Billtodd said:

There appears to be a complete set of change-gears in the cupboard and red box (the box also has the tumbler reverse lever and, hopefully has its gears still attached.

edit: I wonder how many were made? not more than a handful I'd guess. In which case, this could easily be the only one left.

One for a museum not the smelter!


Bill

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Museums are hard-pressed to find space and funds as it is.

Have to draw the line SOMEWHERE.

After all, most folks would be pleased to just 'take it on faith' that no two coprolites are exactly alike. We don' need no steenkin' glass cases full of the proof of it.

I hope you clean it up and try it out, might be a fun and unique machine.

Museums in Europe seem to be built on a firmer footing than in the US (not saying they are over-funded)

But anyway, by 'museum' , I meant any home where its uniqueness will be appreciated and where it can occupy a space that would otherwise be filled with some dreadful copy of a copy, badly made in god-knows-where just to fill a cost/price niche.


Cleaned up and repainted its original blue it'll look and work a treat :-)

I still think it's a frankenlathe. And here's why.

-Strange dovetail ways that could have been cut in another lathes bed.
-Head and tail stock are not in the centre of the ways.
-Missing lead screw. And is don't see mounting holes for a lead screw.
-Weird offset tail stock. That base just doesn't look right.
-The clamp that holds down the carriage look homemade.
-I can't find this on lathe.co.uk so I think someone bolted on that made in Holland badge.

(The stand and bed might be AI Hembrug not the DR1 that could explain the made in Holland badge)

Billtodd said:

Cleaned up and repainted its original blue it'll look and work a treat :-)

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Bill? You should "Be careful what you wish for".

I suspect... that there is enough collective hor$epower - AND certainly devilish humour - on PM to take up a collection and have it land on YOUR doorstep!

Have to draw the line SOMEWHERE.

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There are many South Bend and other common lathes in displays for a rare lathe to displace. That is, assuming more can be found out about it and it's purpose. As said, it may be the only one, which makes it special in a way.
I can also see the point of keeping standard or common lathes for their part in making the world what it is today, but rarity means gone is really and totally gone.

At the very least it deserves careful research before discarding, there is no shortage of scrap cast iron.

UberPrutser said:

I still think it's a frankenlathe. And here's why.

-Strange dovetail ways that could have been cut in another lathes bed.
-Head and tail stock are not in the centre of the ways.
-Missing lead screw. And is don't see mounting holes for a lead screw.
-Weird offset tail stock. That base just doesn't look right.
-The clamp that holds down the carriage look homemade.
-I can't find this on lathe.co.uk so I think someone bolted on that made in Holland badge.

(The stand and bed might be AI Hembrug not the DR1 that could explain the made in Holland badge)

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Ok let me put the counter argument:

Cutting a new dovetail is way beyond your typical Frankenstein and where did the head stock , which neatly mounts on said dovetail, come from ?

There are plenty of lathe whose spindle centre is not on the centre line of the bed (my hlv-h for one) . Placing the support for the cutting tool under the line of force is simply good practice.

The missing lead screw is also missing mounting brackets that contain your missing holes ;-)

The tailstock only looks wrong because someone has chosen to paint part of it.

If there's a homemade clamp holding the carriage, it's because the real clamp is missing

There are plenty of holes to fill in Tony's machine list (i know, i filled one- Have a look at the Haigton Major , it wasn't listed until i found one , ive since found five more and an updated HSU2 model, still not listed on the site)



Why I believe it to be a whole:

Everything fits - sounds simple but unless bits are made to the same pattern i.e copies, they just don't fit. Here the headstock fits the bed , the carriage positions the slides correctly, the tailstock aligns , the bed fits the base , the counter shaft fits the base the covers fit , No way are any of these bits been made for other lathes and can be accidentally reassembled the form another whole.

The plaques are correct : Frankensteins don't cast matching badges and tables for their monsters. Look at the design of the PDF badge , made in england badge and the 'groot handle' badge each has the same fine hatched background , made by the same maker for sure.

I also noticed the similarity to the hembrug but that is nothing unusual , designs are not created in isolation.

Bill

Think "special purpose" here, I think it was designed to fill a need.

I agree with billtodd on this one. I think the lathe is totally real and not made up from junk. I also think it looks pretty cool. I think maybe 60s or even early 70s? Maybe just before the more modern and faster stuff came into being hence a short production life.

Anyway I bet with more digging in old catalogs it will be found and then can be added to Tony's site.

Maybe not important enough for a museum but defiantly has the cool factor for a private collector.

Thanks for sharing it.... I'll have to look and see if I have Dutch tool catalogs around here? I don't think so?.... Damn, one more thing to start buying!

rivett608 said:

defiantly has the cool factor for a private collector.

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"Defiantly" is prolly correct.

Who knows? It may have been custom built to turn Double Gloucester cheese into Manchester Terriers.

Bill

partsproduction said:

Think "special purpose" here, I think it was designed to fill a need.

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No, I don't thonk so: It has a wide range of speeds and English/metric threads ,it is designed to be general purpose. It's size suggests small toolroom use (perhaps wealthy home use).

I still think late 40's early 50's (perhaps as late as 1960 )