English micrometer from the 1870s

While meaning no disrespect to our friends across the pond it seems as if the US lead the way in the development of machinists measuring tools, the big firms of Brown & Sharpe and Starrett pre date Shadrow and Moore & Wright. But here is something a little interesting..... a English micrometer that pre dates most of the American ones..... this is by the instrument firm of Elliott in London which had been around for quite some time making all sorts of scientific instruments. The first reference I have seen is in a book "Workshop Appliances" by C. P. B. Shelley, 1873 (reprinted by Lindsay).......... now this fit in between the first two Brown & Sharpe mics, the 1868 pocket sheet metal gauge (that is the little 3/8" mic) and the 1877 1" mic with small rectangular frame with rounded corners.... the 1" curved frame like we know didn't come out till 1878........ so here we have a earlier and more advanced or useful mic...... the question is how popular these were with UK craftsman and why didn't any more advances in micrometer development stem from this in the 1880s?

A few details to note.... this 1/2" mic is solid nickel silver, it also has a 50 pitch thread at 55º.... both detail like the Church micrometer......

Looks as though the Elliot Bros. company may have gotten involved in other areas of measurement that occupied their interest:

http://books.google.com/books?id=FqsOAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA17

A presumably later (1902?) Elliott is illustrated here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=avEVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA623#PPA623,M1

And here's a crude illustration and reference from an 1872 book

http://books.google.com/books?id=1kYOAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1621

I'm a little surprised none of our UK friends haven't chimed in with any information about micrometer development in the UK during the years following this early mic.......

Rivett,

I drafted a reply, but then decided I didn’t know enough, so gave up.

However, your post raises some interesting questions, so I‘ll offer some comments.

British micrometer development just seemed to stop suddenly, although some interesting instruments were made over here (for example the 1890s Ciceri Smith digital micrometers which have been discussed here in the past).

I think the square-framed exposed thread micrometers of the ‘Elliott’ type must have been in production in a number of countries for many years. I’ve only seen that type in the 0- 1" or 0 - 25 mm sizes (or smaller).

I have no idea how widespread the use of micrometers was in the 19th or early 20th centuries, or when specified tolerances became commonplace on drawings. This raises questions about how precision items were made in those days. Setting aside one-off or low production componrnts that were ‘made to fit‘, and concentrating on high volume production items or other precision work, to what extent were micrometers used on the shop floor, as opposed to than go/no go gauges?

Going back to micrometer manufacture, unfortunately I have no tool catalogues from the late 19th/early 20th century era to indicate the type and origin of micrometers sold in the UK. The earliest I have is a Buck & Hickman 1923 catalogue, and all the mics were of US origin - B&S, Starrett, and Slocomb. I don’t know whether this is because there were no competitive British ones, or because Buck & Hickman at that time specialised in imported US products.

It may be that US measuring equipment was so good and so cheap that no-one in the UK found it worth trying to compete. However, I can’t imagine that price would have discouraged British makers from competing, based for example on the relative cost of US and British vernier calipers. The 1923 catalogue shows the price for 6-inch verniers from B&S and Starrett as £5.00 whereas Chesterman calipers were only 35 shillings (£1.75). So, the Chesterman product was about one-third the price of the US products.

I do know that things changed dramatically in the 1920s. I think that after WW1 the UK government wanted British precision engineering companies to become less dependent on imports, and Moore & Wright set about making all sorts of measuring instruments, many which appeared to be copies of US products. This they did with great success, having made big investments in equipment (for example high precision thread grinders from Coventry Gauge & Tool for producing micrometer screws with very tight limits on pitch errors).

Gentlemen,

I am fortunate enough to have a 500 page photocopied Buck & Hickman catalogue from 1900. There is not a single micrometer in it ! A simple vernier guage and wire, zinc, lead guages along with calipers up to around 24 inches and of course rulers.

There is however an indication of the state of source of supply with the following........

* American Tools & Machines * - These have been almost entirely omitted from the present catalogue; as they now form such an important part of our business, we issue a special catalogue relating thereto. Customers who require particulars of such tools and machines should therefore apply for our AMERICAN CATALOGUE. This will be found to contain full particulars of the high class American machines and hand tools, the sale of which we control in this country, also of all the leading lines of other high class American tools and machines.

That is interesting that Buck & Hickman basically just gave up that part of the tool market to the Americans.... I have a reprint of their American tools catalog from 1906..... IIR the only two English mics are by Ciceri Smith and the Grimshaw & Baxter that are in the catalog.

It is also interesting that the UK wanted to be a little more self reliant by the 20's....... in the years leading up to WWI I remember seeing a number of articles in Machinery M. and AM aimed at America companied to sell in Europe and the UK....... their going to war and we can money off it was the gist of it all.

What I would still love to know is what the reaction of the micrometer was in the UK in the 1860 to 1880 period? maybe ask Ken H what he knows...... another interesting thing is Holtzappfel lists on in I think their 1852 price list, no illustration so we really don't know if this was a sliding caliper with a screw adjust or a micrometer as we know it? none have been found however they did make a lot of sliding calipers... all quite gorgeous in brass and steel.

rivett608 said:

......however they did make a lot of sliding calipers... all quite gorgeous in brass and steel.

Click to expand...

Thus......


Rivett -- still looking for the right piece of cast iron for the folding mic., (being on pension I may have to make a 1" !) but I really took a fancy to the centre hole divider that sold on evilbay - ivory handle even - later.......

Mark

Still looking for information on these..... Micrometers in England in the 19th century?

English Micrometers?

I can't give much background information on these items, purchased off ebay during last three months. The all steel item has a name so faint I haven't been able to read it so far, need more magnification. If you require I will try & improve on the photos. Any information on these items will be gratefully received.

Ray

More photos:

More photos:

More photos:

More photos:

WOW Great photos and mics..... Here is what I think....

The 1" example with the brass thimble is circa 1890 to say WWII........ I would guess it to made in France, maybe. That style was made all over Europe at the time but the English and the Germans often used a more block like modern style number markings.

The little steel metric one looks French or German maybe anytime around the mid 20th century..... could be as early as 1910 or as late as the 1960's

The little bench mic is really pretty...... it looks English. Moore & Wright made one that looked almost exactly like it but in cast iron......... yours looks factory made but maybe for "in house" use since there is no name on it...... I would date it 1900 ish....... maybe 1890 to WWI

Thanks for sharing these..... you have 3 therefor you must be a collector?

Collecting

Rivett,
Thanks for your compliments & the information. Re the collecting - - when I sold my small business everything went, twenty plus years of auction/boot sale treasures. Seems like I am starting over but being a bit more selective this time.

Ray

Another Elliott Bros micrometer







This is the first Elliott Bros micrometer I've seen in the flesh, and it's a thing of beauty. I was surprised at how small it is. And how shiny, too. Not plated, but as Rivett said, solid 'nickel silver' (copper-nickel alloy, very slight hint of gold colour).

The graduations on the thimble show ‘teeth marks’, I suspect that these were cut with a slitting saw-type milling cutter on a dividing engine.

The leather case for mine has the address 449 Strand, London, which apparently was used up to 1886. We know from post #3 that Elliott were making this type of micrometer from at least 1872. Intriguingly, the source (Spon’s Dictionary of Engineering), refers to a version reading to 0.0001".

On my example, the condition of the spindle and anvil faces and the wear on the knurl suggested that it had seen much use. I checked the accuracy of mine, and was surprised by the findings. I'll say more it in this thread:-

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...nglish-micrometer-thread-compensation-220163/