Fabric in Tool Chests, replace or not?

In another thread there was a comment about replacing fabric in tool chests which brings up the question "should you replace it?"

I think that is up to the individual and what they plan to do with the chest.... if it is being refinished for SWMBO new jewelry box I'm sure that having old nasty oily fabric is NOT going to part of the plan. If the chest is a all original one, why not keep it that way?

My personal feeling is I like them original, I do not even buy chests anymore (unless they are fantastic in so many other ways) that have been refinished or re-lined. I prefer old with all it's faults.

This being said I do have a few chests that one or two drawers have had the fabric taken out...... so for any of you "restoring" a chest I would like to get the old fabric from you! What I am looking for is not the felt used in Gerstner's but the earlier dark green velvet used in the circa 1880 to 1920 vintage chests. Let me know if you have some please!

I don't know if any of you saw the chest in the consignment area of Cabin Fever in York, Pa? I almost bought it Fri. morning but it was missing it's lock and one drawers fabric...... on Sun afternoon when they lowered the price I couldn't resist anymore!!!!!!! I don't why no one else grabbed it...... for $ 150 I got a very well constructed mahogany 1880s chest with 4 bird-eye maple (secondary wood) drawers fully dovetailed with paneled top and recessed paneling with molding on sides and back in original finish with original hardware less lock and fabric in one drawer.... that's what I need the fabric for. I put it down on my main workbench and I think it will be my user for a while....

So what are your thoughts on replacing fabric and for those that do, Got any extra? Thanks

Rivett, Here is my 2 cents.

I have indeed replaced the fabric in SWMBO's Cuban mahogany, circa 1880 tool chest, now her jewelry box. (FYI, it was my find at Knotty Pine in NH in 1980 for some of my early tools.......But, what is hers is hers and what is mine is hers for the past 44 years!)

For the ones she lets me keep, I have left a couple of them original and replaced the felt in a couple of others. For me, the decision point was originality and value of the box. A common Gerstner, leatherette with gritty, dirty and ripped felt got new liners.

A Bliss box, circa 1890, came with no liner felt and apparently never had any. When I discovered the wooden drawer bottoms were a little harsh on the finish (lacquer? shellac?) of some of my boxwood rules, it got new felt liners.

But, if the original felt liners in a pre-1920 box/chest are not too gritty from metal shavings and not ripped, but are just dirty, they stay.

Of course, I can't sell a circa 1920-1950 Gerstner box without mint condition liners, so I have re-lined maybe a half dozen of them. And, it is a bit of work because they have to be glued in(I use a light brush coat of Elmers white glue) and, even more trouble, the drawer sides have to be lined too.

A much easier to use glue is wallpaper paste. It also makes it easier to remove that new cloth when IT finally wears out.

AntiqueMac said:

And, it is a bit of work because they have to be glued in(I use a light brush coat of Elmers white glue)

Click to expand...

Uh-oh.....

better to use hide glue..... quite a few of the white and yellow glues will rust steel, even months after they dry. And hide glue is original.

Interesting..... I googled this question and what comes up.... more details from the PM

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/do-contact-cement-fumes-rust-bright-steel-206046/

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...-wood-glue-felt-moisture-rust-question-87588/

Method without glue

Lining Your Jewelry Box With Felt - Tutorial - by stefang @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community

Works well. I bought a roll of Scotch Red Label double back tape and used .020 plastic shim stock with wool felt (prewashed) and the results were very clean. Complicated contours would be a problem.

Thanks Rivett, I surely glued my re-felting wrong, using white glue. It was a technique taught to me decades ago by Len Geary (the antique shop owner across from Cooks Hardware in Laurel, Md.)

The evidence is no longer anecdotal, despite some lucky instances reported.

I won't use white Elmers glue again if I ever have the occasion to add felt. I wonder what happened to the boxes I re-felted and sold now 15+ years ago.

And, as to cr*ppy felt being a problem, I have had it rust tools in one day with no glue used. That so-called felt was just laid on the bottom of drawers.

Hide glue works, but has a bit much "tack". I was taught, as a student in furniture conservation at the school run by the British Antiques Dealer's Association at West Dean College/ West Sussex (West Dean Homepage) to lay new baize/melton cloth on old surfaces by using wallpaper paste. Lay it oversize, brush it down with a soft brush, and trim with the sharp corner of a sharp chisel held on a bias, or with a scalpel. I have had great success with that for years. By the way, for cloth, it is hard to go past Hainsworth.

Melton - Authentic Costume Fabrics - Apparel Fabrics - Hainsworth

I just came across this and; I had to check my tools because I used white glue years ago to glue in felt on two tool chests. I can only relate my own experience using white glue with wool felt. I used Elmers to glue in all the drawer inserts and top compartment felt in my Union and Gerstner O42 chests. I just took a look at my squares and planer gauge the largest polished steel pieces in the boxes. They are bright and shiny and have been living in these drawers for going on twelve years.

The boxes all have galvanized steel drawer bottoms and some had light corrosion when I removed the old lining. They were cleaned with steel wool and lacquer thinner before being recovered. I have seen no signs of moisture and definitely no rusting of any tools in the many years of service these boxes have provided. I am in a dry climate and that may be part of the issue. In areas with high humidity and little drying time I could envision some potential problems.

The tool chests mentioned all hold tools and the three wood chests are working albeit light duty clean work. Having nice clean lining just reinforces the habit of wiping down the tools before they go back into the drawer. I understand preserving the original material in an antique on off chest but these are just run of the mill boxes. Cleaning them and making them look nice was a concise choice and made them far more useful for my needs

Steve

Another data point here, years ago I re-felted a rather clapped out toolchest, using
elmer's white glue. Apparently no ill effects on any of my tools, although if I had to
do it again, I'd probably use a different method after reading this thread.

In re: to felt.

What about pool/billiards table felt? It has the same feel as antique felt.

Snowman,

I used pool table felt I bought from the Beltsville, Md pool hall (now gone) more than 20 years ago. It worked fine and is still in some of my drawers where part of my collection of early precision tools are kept.

I don't recall the details, but that felt was manufactured in the UK using some proprietary wool process specifically for pool tables. Or at least that was the sales pitch.

I had bought other 'felt' from a local craft store and put down unglued in a series of drawers, laid my collection on it and closed the drawer for the night. Next morning, disaster - light rust over all of the tools.

It was Rivett at that time who put me onto the information that some so called 'felt' is really quite bad for metal.

It has been years since I bought felt, but I recall that the pool table felt was thinner than craft store products. That didn't matter to me. I prefer the drawer to be unlined and wood. But, the shifting on tools by opening and closing a drawer was harsh on some tool finishes - like the shellac on boxwood rules. So, I lined it with the thin pool table felt.

snowman said:

In re: to felt.

What about pool/billiards table felt? It has the same feel as antique felt.

Click to expand...

For fans of felt: Pool Table Felt Buyers Guide

FWIW, I've had good luck periodically spraying the felt (some acrylic, some wool) in my toolbox drawers with Starrett M1. No rust so far...

Neil

Fabric - now we are talking...I bought some fine cotton velvet from Fishman's in chicago. They have a wonderful 100% cotton, low pile velvet fabric in lots of colors; I got my first machinist chest last year, fun to outbid the 'older' guys at the auction... and while I haven't made the decision to replace the fabric; I bought the fabric while I was in Chicago last year, if the restoration spirit moves me this year. If I remove the fabric from the drawers I can do a burn test on the fiber to confirm it is natural and not man made; the fabric in my machinist chest feels more like silk velvet then the Gerstner felt; and if I were re-habbing a Gerstner I would use wool felt depending on the date of the chest; the aesthetics of the felt are different. You can probably purchase wool felt at a good quality privately owned quilting store. My machinist chest lives in my office with AC and Heat year round, my calipers get better treatment then me, as the live in 64-75 degrees year round, and I have to go outdoors to get to the office; none of my tools have rusted. They may go hiding in the drawers scared silly what she is going to do with them next, I finally broke a 1/16" router bit a couple of weeks ago; wasn't fast enough to hit the big red stop button, I had a great record.

I have no expertise to contribute re the exact material used for "felt" or the stickum used. However, my feeling about the OP question of whether to do it or not is yes, do it. Felting in an old tool chest is so often worn that it might always have been considered to be an expendible, to be replaced when needed, like irreparable workshoes with holes worn through. In other words, refelting might be in perfect harmony with 19th C practice. I feel differently about many commonly seen repair jobs such as replacing brass corners, or locks, with modern versions. The other thing is that intact felting just seems kinder to precision measurement tools. I know that at least one other poster to this thread favors bare wood, and that the tools we are talking about were made to a robust standard, but there is something that is pleasing, to me anyway, about putting a precision tool down on a soft surface rather than a torn surface that might be half torn felt and half raw wood.

I have to add that I would not raise even the slightest objection to anyone else who favors, as Rivett does, letting the felt age in place as it were. The preservation of authenticity is always to be respected.

-Marty-

I checked the machinists chest today, and it is not silk, but it would have nice soft feel to it; I am puzzled what type of fabric it is; It is only with discipline that I don't take it apart and wash the fabric. At the present time, it has a stiff, it got wet feel from its prior owner.

I was attracted to the chests hardware pulls, as I thought it was just pleasing. A couple need to be remade/replaced. I don't have the tools that you guys do, but my mitutoyo dial calipers still need a nice place to live and my limited Starrett measuring & turning tools that I have purchased on the journey need a home; mostly because I misplace them. I am thinking graduated depth of drawers, similar to a highboy, but of course not as large as a highboy.
I may just leave it all intact and make my own... and I will line that one with my cotton velvet.

Another thought on this to simply cover over old and worn fabric with new, that way in the future if someone wanted it original it is right there under the new. In thinking about my big Starrett wall display is in such good original condition because for 50+ years it had a new cover over the original fabric.

rivett608 said:

Another thought on this to simply cover over old and worn fabric with new, that way in the future if someone wanted it original it is right there under the new. In thinking about my big Starrett wall display is in such good original condition because for 50+ years it had a new cover over the original fabric.

Click to expand...

Yes! This is the better way.

New materials that resemble older materials can be rather more durable.

Olefins, for example, used as furniture coverings as well as rot and fade resistant VERY hard to damage indoor/outdoor carpet. Those need not resemble Astroturf.

"Herculon" was the name, and in risky white, yet, as covers a queen-bed Castro Convertible couch & loveseat we have. Still looking good nearly 30 years-on. Hard to harm. Hard to stain. Easy to clean. Looks a bit like classical rough linen, not velvet. Corduroy could make an interesting liner as well.

Leathers and synthetic leathers. Synthetics are made differently from the tanning of natural hides. Some tanning processes can live in contact with metal tools, harm neither party. Others, not so well. Synthetics add another set of choices.

Suppliers are around who deal these goods to high-dollar corporate jet aircraft finishers and those who trim out fine sail and motor yachts.

Fire resistance, mold and mildew resistance, what adhesives are best, etc are known characteristics for each material clan.

No reason a truly fine toolchest has to have nought but dull green or brown felt. Some tools go in and out a tad grubby - best live on elastomer liner in a modern day Lista/Vidmar/El Cheapo clone. Others are handled with care bordering on reverence. Different cabinet if not also different ROOM.

I'd be pleased to provide my beloved ten-millionths Hamilton Dial Indicator with a bed worthy of the inside of a legendary Faberge "egg". A "daily driver" it is not. Same with the Biddle mechanical tachometers.

"This... could get interesting!"

One question to ask yourself is whether or not the felting is original to begin with. Tool chests were built to be used and the felting could have been redone sufficiently long enough ago to appear original. I encounter this sort of thing all the time as a clock restorer. A 250 year old brass dial couldn't possibly have its 'original' finish despite what anybody might think.

For felting, look into the fabric used by silversmiths. It has tarnish presentative.