Gray Planer being installed & lubrication question

Mad Machinist · Jul 16, 2017

We are currently installing a 60" x 60" x 24' 4 Head Gray Planer. This is the third big Gray machine we are putting in. It will be the smallest and by far the oldest. It doesn't have the Space Saver drive and it's serial number barely clears 7000. It's next stop probably would have been the scrap yard. Anyway I have a question on Gray's lubrication specification that nobody has been able to answer. Not even a retired Gray (G&L) guy I know.

All the lubrication specifications are in Gray's Bulletin 59. Gray specifies Gargoyle Arctic "C" for the rail end gearbox and side head gearboxes. It's scratched out on my copy but it says on 72" and larger Openside and 84" and larger Double Housing use DTE Light. Also on a Gray Shell spec. sheet it says to use Shell Vitrea oil 29. It has the same "note" but the note also specifies Vitrea 29 for the larger machines. Vitrea 29 must be an outdated spec. I can't find anything about it.

Arctic "C" is a refrigeration oil designed to work at sub zero temperatures. Gray must have specified it for a reason. Does Anybody know why?

ewlsey · Jul 16, 2017

I don't think I would worry too much about it. Any decent R&O machine oil would probably work just fine.

Mebfab · Jul 16, 2017

Where did you find it, looks familiar?

tdmidget · Jul 16, 2017

Did you do ANY research? About 2 minutes on google reveals that Morlina 46 is the replacement and has been discussed on this forum.

Andy FitzGibbon · Jul 17, 2017

tdmidget said:
Did you do ANY research? About 2 minutes on google reveals that Morlina 46 is the replacement and has been discussed on this forum.

The question was not about what oil to use- Arctic C oil is still available from Mobil. The question was about WHY Gray spec'd it. I, too, am curious about why they would spec a refrigeration oil for planer gearboxes.

Andy

Mad Machinist · Jul 17, 2017

Having a Gray Planer Type Boring Mill and a Gray Planer Mill I am very familiar with Gray machine tools. There is nothing special called out in the Mobil Arctic "C" data sheet other than low temperature operation. Gray obviously went out of their way to specify it. They could have easily specified a Mobil Vactra Heavy Medium a DTE or Double Letter Series all of which were very common and show up every where else in their lubrication specifications.

The only thing unique to the planer gearboxes is the feed indexing mechanism. It is a ratchet and pawl type mechanism. My guess is that it has something to do with that.

Mad Machinist · Jul 17, 2017

Mebfab said:
Where did you find it, looks familiar?

I Found it in Illinois.

cash · Jul 21, 2017

Sorry I cant help on your oil question, but great stuff that you keep these old machines going.

Next week I go to Cleveland to take apart a 48" x 196" Rockford Planer Mill.

It is a different game when you deal with machines where most of the people who knew them and the ins and outs of them are now either in a home or dead.

bryan_machine · Jul 21, 2017

speculation - where such machines often used in large unheated facilities? was the arctic chosen not for arctic service, but for better startup-cold-unheated shop service? do planer gearboxes warm up like a car transmission? or are they "always cold" - so a lubricant with presumably better function on cold machinery is desireable?

(it's a reach - machine ways don't usually get hot and vactra works just fine....)

Tyrone Shoelaces · Jul 21, 2017

Lots of UK builders of large machines recommended different oils for different climates. Machines going to Canada would probably have a different oil spec from one going to South Africa or Australia.

Regards Tyrone

Mad Machinist · Jul 21, 2017

Well I talked to a friend who has one of the last Gray Planers made. He is the one who told me I need to use Arctic "C". I would have ignored the specification in the Bulletin. He said that on his Planer there is a metal tag at the gearboxes with a WARNING that ONLY ARCTIC C can be used. He said his manual has similar warnings. There must have been trouble with other oils causing failures if Gray went to the trouble of putting the warning on a tag at the gearbox on later machines. I attached the last page of Gray Bulletin 83 with a description of Arctic C. It says that no substitutions be made. My friend said his Gray owners manual actually has the specifications for the oil. He had it locally blended and said the oil guy told him the specifications were much tighter than he is used to seeing.

He is sending me a copy. You wonder what is so special in that feed mechanism and why Arctic C, a refrigeration oil works.

jdavi581 · Jul 22, 2017

Hello,
Merely a novice when it comes to oil, but the artic c oil looks to be significantly thinner or less viscous. My guess is that they have something in that gearbox that needs that to work properly. My example is a little more crude, but I think applicable. I have run a few Borg Warner Overdrive transmissions. I used to put 90WT in them, but noticed when cold and sometimes when warm, it would not shift into OD very well. One day, while reading the Lube instructions, it said to use 30 WT in it. Works much better now.
I realize that this is obvious, but hopefully it helps.
Joe

tdmidget · Jul 22, 2017

jdavi581 said:
Hello,
Merely a novice when it comes to oil, but the artic c oil looks to be significantly thinner or less viscous. My guess is that they have something in that gearbox that needs that to work properly. My example is a little more crude, but I think applicable. I have run a few Borg Warner Overdrive transmissions. I used to put 90WT in them, but noticed when cold and sometimes when warm, it would not shift into OD very well. One day, while reading the Lube instructions, it said to use 30 WT in it. Works much better now.
I realize that this is obvious, but hopefully it helps.
Joe

So , your message is "read the instructions after you have a problem?"

jdavi581 · Jul 23, 2017

tdmidget said:
So , your message is "read the instructions after you have a problem?"

No, sometimes we tend to assume that because it is an old machine and it is easy to assume that oil that has been in similar applications is fine. Not so in my case, and likely yours.
Joe

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