Help Identify Vernier Protractor, & tools

Ive been at it again. I found a few tools at an engine show this weekend and like to ask some help to identify a protractor, maker and purpose. Only markings are
8"
Made in USA

It has a cross hair in glass viewer with a vernier scale, ranging over a 200 degree arc. Appears very well made and nicely finished in a case. I assumed this was a drafting tool? But why so accurate? It was sold at a table with other machinists tools, could it be for layout? Pattern making?

Second: I got a Starrett Trammel, which is somehting I have wanted for a while.

Third: there is a odd (to me) little inside bore gauge from Brown and Sharpe. I would also like to ask you guys, if this B&S is a considered a rare tool or just one more of many things I have yet to see.

The protractor is for drafting, often sat on your Tee-square...... same design made from about 1850 to 1950 or later.... yours looks pretty new, maybe 50s or 60s..... the cross hair you would line up on the center.

The trammels are a very nice late set....... can we ask just how cheap you got them?

The B & S mic is seen fairly often and so is the handle.... just not together..... I have seen lots of each but they are usually just some odd part in a machinist chest....

Nice stuff.......

Thanks Rivett, Made a package deal, so the Starrett was somewhere under 50. I though I stole the protractor, but guess its not so special after all. Had delusions of perhaps selling the protractor to cover my days extravagance. I cannot complain, I got a nice starrett tool.

Thinking about drafting...One thing strikes me is how cheesy crappy bad the cad drawings look compared to the fine detail drawings a draftsman would turn out. Its very disappointing, to me, that our latest technology is such poor rendition and another fine art has been lost. I see the "posted with pride cad images", with no apology for the god awful image - as compared to the hand drawn prints. Have these new guys even seen old prints?
I do understand for the imagination impared, the 3 d color coded views are useful, but what disapoints is the actual prints.

peter said:

... another fine art has been lost. ...

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I love CAD; I was the first to press to CAD where I worked in the '80s but I also value the drafting training I got in school as the most usefull of the classes I took. Most of the stuff they taught me in college one can look up in a book ( or now the web ) but learning how to draw is learning how to think in 3D and also how to communicate your ideas. I feel the two most valuable courses I took were typing and drafting.

I had an enginering student working for me and he commented on how good my scetches looked. I asked if he had taken drafting and he said it wasn't required for his major!

Quote[One thing strikes me is how cheesy crappy bad the cad drawings look compared to the fine detail drawings a draftsman would turn out.]Unquote

It's all a matter of how much "time" is involved with making the drawing.

I have some copies of drawings made of South Street Station (Providence, RI) Done in 1902 and show the original vertical spindle (Curtis) GE Turbine that was installed at that time. All of three MW which was 1/3rd the physical size of the vertical reciprocating steam engine it replaced and 3x the output.

The originals came through my hands while working for New England Power Company and the company was consolidating their assets prior to sale to PG&E in the late 1990s. Done using ink on linen, the drawings were a MASTERPIECE of the drawing art to include "shading" and "coloring" using who knows what process. But alas for me - I would have loved to have done a "long term borrow" on the drawing - they were the company property and were part of the sale of the generating assets to PG&E.

So I made a copy instead. Couldn't get the colors, but certainly everything else.

Today I work for an engineering firm which does work for the nuclear power industry worldwide. As a fortune 500 company, we have the resources, but doing drawings is now universally CAD. And universally done "minimalist" in order to lower costs.

In the back room is the last remaining actual drawing board - minus the travelling square - which serves as a place to unroll "hard copy" when we get it. Right next to it is the printer/plotter which is the actual computer output for hard copy. It's only used when making presentation copies as an adjunt to powerpoint presentations on proposals. It's a nice guesture to get a folded up drawing done up for "pretty" in the cover of a proposal. But note that proposals are done "prior" to settlement of a contract and during the 'beauty contest' stage of the bidding process.

Like it or not - money drives the world.

Late in his life the nuclear physics pioneer Albert Einstein was buttonholed by a reporter:

"Mr. Einstein" the reporter persisted "What do you think is the most powerful force in the world?" This of course asked in full knowledge of what the originator of nuclear theory would be likely to say.

The great man started to form reply - you could see him start to tense up his lips to make the answer - and then he suddenly stopped. A pause. And then he got a bright look in his eyes....

Looking directly at the reporter, Einstein said "The most powerful force in the world is - compound interest."

Not exactly the answer the reporter was looking for.

Smart man that Einstein.

Joe

I guess, I will put the protractor up on the classified for 40 and see if I can get out from under.

peter said:

Ive been at it again. I found a few tools at an engine show this weekend and like to ask some help to identify a protractor, maker and purpose. Only markings are 8" Made in USA
It has a cross hair in glass viewer with a vernier scale, ranging over a 200 degree arc. Appears very well made and nicely finished in a case. I assumed this was a drafting tool? But why so accurate? It was sold at a table with other machinists tools, could it be for layout? Pattern making?

Click to expand...

I know this is an old post but doesn't look like this tool was really identified. I just happen to pick one up at a local swap this last weekend and love it and will find uses for it. Too bad you sold yours. This tool is a Vernier Protractor made by Union Instrument Corp called a "Protractor Arm by the company. Ca, WWII. There is a couple other versions of this tool with the only difference is they came with a micro adjustment screw attachment. This particular one didn't have it for some reason.

A year ago I responded to a Craig's List advertisement for machinist's tools. I went to the guy's house and he had stacks and stacks of micrometers and other goodies, almost all in the box. Some of them were in the wrong box, some were very old, some merely used of uncertain vintage, some were Chinesium and some were Starrett or Swiss, and everything in between. My recollection is there may have been ?90 items. He was vague about the method by which these were obtained, but I doubt they were from a burglary or similar illegal activity. His house, the boat and the guy did not seem the type. I got the feeling they were inherited, but that was somewhat vague. It took an hour for me to go through all the boxes. He wanted ten or twenty dollars for each item. I chose a dozen or so. A few days later, I just had to have more and went back for a second dive and purchased another six or so items. A few more days later I made an offer for the remaining items, which he declined. A few more days went by and a higher offer was rejected because he sold them all. I should have struck while I had the chance.

One of the items I found was this gem. The case has been abused severely, possible crushed by sitting on it, or some similar mishap. The clasps do not catch the upper lid because of the deformity of the box. The protractor appears to be unscathed by whatever caused the case damage. Both the case and the protractor are marked USCE, which I believe is United Stated (Army) Corps of Engineers. Mine does not have any rust, and appears to be made of stainless steel. Rotating the arm of the protractor is accomplished with little effort, but the motion feels a little gritty. The back side may have a bit of galling from grit. I cleaned it and there is smoother action, but not entirely so. Maybe I have to take it apart and or apply a bit of oil. Right now I am choosing not to take it apart as it is not used and I don't want to ruin the alignment on the vernier scale. There is no evidence of a vernier adjustment screw on my protractor.

I did a little research about Union Instrument Corp. They made, among other things compasses for the US military (which I might have in my camping gear, I'll have to check sometime) and a pocket size set of drafting tools. I didn't see any evidence they are still in business. Since my protractor is marked 8", I wonder if there were different sizes.

RE: Protractor

Sometimes mathematical answers came from very precision drawings.
Nowadays........


RE: CAD

Currently much of CAD engineering is downloaded directly to the machine.
The drawings are for quick reference only.
If one took the time invested in those beautiful old drawings and applied it to CAD drawings, they can be made just as beautiful.
Who wants to pay for it?

Leg17 said:

RE: Protractor


If one took the time invested in those beautiful old drawings and applied it to CAD drawings, they can be made just as beautiful.
Who wants to pay for it?

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Well, I did some drawings for the State of Texas once.. I did all the section drawings on this project. Program was Cadvance, now long gone. You can up the resolution in the bar above the image.
HABS TEX,227-AUST,13- (sheet 71 of 79) - Texas State Capitol, Eleventh Street at Congress Avenue, Austin, Travis County, TX
HABS TEX,227-AUST,13- (sheet 69 of 79) - Texas State Capitol, Eleventh Street at Congress Avenue, Austin, Travis County, TX

Rudd said:

Well, I did some drawings for the State of Texas once.. I did all the section drawings on this project. Program was Cadvance, now long gone. You can up the resolution in the bar above the image.
HABS TEX,227-AUST,13- (sheet 71 of 79) - Texas State Capitol, Eleventh Street at Congress Avenue, Austin, Travis County, TX
HABS TEX,227-AUST,13- (sheet 69 of 79) - Texas State Capitol, Eleventh Street at Congress Avenue, Austin, Travis County, TX

Click to expand...

Nice looking drawings.

Thanks. looks like they got pixillated when scanned. The originals are archival ink on mylar. A plot with the old 750c took 2-3 hours, you had to sit there watching the pens and stop the plot if one started to quit.