I love new machine day! Hendey Tool and Gage

After a long protracted journey, this T&G 9x18 has found a new home. Just got it into place, inspection starts this weekend.

The only number I can find on this lathe is stamped on the compound, and I have included a picture. I would be serial #31668

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I have checked all the usual Hendey places, end of bed near tailstock, front of apron... etc.

I checked the headstock and belts, just for a sec... and link belts... including in the PIV drive. Though it did come with the original PIV belt and the the PIV canister cover. So perhaps an easy fix.

Pictures and more to come! If Hendeyman can confirm serial number I love to know where its been for the last 75+ years.

Mark

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Hendey S/N Usually at the Right End of the Bed

The serial number of a Hendey lathe is usually stamped on the top of the bed casting, between the two front ways, at the right end of the bed. They are sometimes stamped fairly lightly, such that they are obscured by a coat of paint. You may have to look VERY carefully and perhaps do some wire-brushing BETWEEN the ways. (Not that I'm a true expert - I've examined only three Hendeys.)

The tailstock would obscure, or partly obscure, the S/N when it is in the position shown in your photos.

That's a very desirable model of Hendey. I'm sure you will have fun with it.

John Ruth

Very desirable lathe....nice get!

Yeah, the serial number on my lathe was initially hidden by a layer of way oil and dirt....right where they stamped it in 1942. A little cleaning revealed it, just as John stated.

I've always kept my eyes open for one of these, but they're rare, and always seemingly 1500 to 2000 miles away. Enjoy.

Looks good. As others have said the serial number is on the front way at the tailstock end.
I picked up 2 a couple years ago and am slowly cleaning them up.
Yours is an early one, mine are both later, early 50s.
Keep us updated on your progress.

M.Latham said:

....including in the PIV drive. Though it did come with the original PIV belt and the the PIV canister cover. So perhaps an easy fix.

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PIV Werner-Reimers / PIV ARE an "easy fix". Durable buggers to begin with as well.

Still in production. Belts and lube recommendations have US East Coast support. I have one in my Alzmetall drillpress, and it is the least of my concerns.

All Hendeys were solidly built. The T&G model responds VERY well to even modest TLC.

PM Member trboatwoarks, Annapolis, MD area, restored his T&G a while back, CV drives included, spindle bearing rework as well. Yes, oddly, they are greased, not oiled like a 10EE, but they JF work, anyway.

Dig out some of TR's PM threads on the T&G, they'll show the way, and also put grins on yer face. This lathe doesn't have to kiss ass - it can hold it own in fast company, and KICK serious ass when it comes to ease of single-point threading.

Not as "elegant" a system as a big Schaublin or my Cazeneuve HBX. OTOH Hendey's way is simple. Dirt-simple. So one doesn't need a retraining course after a lunch break as the European ones might require.

So, here are a few more pictures. The only number is 31668, I will assume this is the serial number, it is about the right time frame for this PIV machine, I think.

The PIV drive cones have been ground smooth, and an automotive belt inserted. However as stated I have the original chain.

More to come.... Thanks in advance for any advice and wisdom anyone can provide.

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M.Latham said:

The PIV drive cones have been ground smooth, and an automotive belt inserted. However as stated I have the original chain.

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A B***dy travesty, that! PIV works by the ENDs of the link pins riding up and down in grooves. Think non-slip cross between Gilmer toothed timing belts and a Reeves friction vari-belt.

In use, PIV drives are serious durable and sort of grumble rather than whine. It would be useful to get new cones and chain while they can still be had.

These folks were helpful:

PIV Variable Speed Mechanical Drive and Gear Reducer Parts

"Design wins" are still ongoing, new products, global Dana" one of the overseers:

Brevini PIV | Made in Germany by PIV Drives - Brevini PIV

Well, I've had better news... Contacted AC Compacting regarding parts, the tensioner is unavailable, and a new set of cones/sheaves is .... $4150 (gulp)

Back to the drawing board

M.Latham said:

Well, I've had better news... Contacted AC Compacting regarding parts, the tensioner is unavailable, and a new set of cones/sheaves is .... $4150 (gulp)

Back to the drawing board

Click to expand...

Well... s**t. Guess NOW we know why Alzmetall ceased using them in their biggest column drill presses (AB5/S here..)



Soooo... some days.. one just takes another route. PIV is nice, but when it costs more than a decent used car for only PARTS of it?

I dig my stash of "Type T" (meant for smooth variable speed use, lifts, hoists, machine-tools, etc..) Reliance RPM III Dinosaur Current motors.

Those wound for 180 VDC work fine off 240 VAC single-phase, need no boost transformer, are good with inexpensive KB-Penta "4Q" DC Drives, don't need the more sophisticated (and costly) Parker-SSD's higher voltage capability as a 10EE does.

Dimensions if you want to consider it. I have at least two I can get metrology onto easily, even a freight scale.

NEMA-4X cased 4Q KB-Penta 240-D is the appropriate drive, Galco my most-common source.

Too nice a lathe by half to downgrade to a Vee Effing Dee that has no genune love for single-phase to begin with, only "pretends" to do.

Before ''going mad'' have you checked that the erm''modified''?? PIV works? ........if it does I'd leave well alone.

No, this weekend will be the real assessment. The former owner states the the drive was repaired like that before he got the machine, and that it worked fine for his needs. So, I could try to use as is.

However. I'd like to try to move this a bit more towards OEM, time and money allowing. There are several PIV drives online that are close in hp, input rpm and output rpm. What I don't know is how close, close needs to be. I don't want to run this and tear all the teeth off the backgears because the torque was over the top. Sizing the pullys appropriately should tweek input and output rpms.... But I don't know, what I don't know about these drives.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mark

I apprears there may be some leeway in exactly what may be used.

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My PIV tag.

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Another members tag, Trboatworks

M.Latham said:

I apprears there may be some leeway in exactly what may be used.

View attachment 225007
My PIV tag.

View attachment 225006
Another members tag, Trboatworks

Click to expand...

Interesting that his one is rated at significantly lesser HP. My Alzmetall AB5/S is 7+ HP and a Werner-Reimers, Germany "original", of course (1950's build era).

You MAY be able to find a complete PIV unit that can be adapted. I still hold that a DC motor and solid-state drive would be easier and less-costly for as good - or better - results, but am more than slightly biased, 10EE being a tad "viral" as they are!




Meanwhile, here's something that I hope may be useful, as the specs for lube are vague, obsolete, or both. A Fairchild division used the Link-Belt license built PIV units. Good ones, I'd expect, as Link-Belt were a rather well-regarded power-transmission house in their own right, and would have had a good understanding of the dynamics of it all.

Found this cross-ref to newer lubes in their manual. "NewER" in that some of these have also already gone obsolete:

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And took an interest in an alleged "upgrade". Or so the lube maker claims:

97 Parasynthetic Industrial Fluid - Alithicon Lubricants

Six gallon pail strikes me as an odd size, but.. the Alzmetall uses rather a lot more juice at each charge than your smaller drives do, EIGHT Mike Foxtrot Litres of it!. Worse, the data plate refers one off to the machine-tool maker's instruction manual for lube specs. No such manual to be had, sadly. Alzmetall and their otherwise-VERY-helpful US distributor have stone-walled-off any support at all for the ancient AB5/S - onetime T. Rex of their column-drill lineup, "Big Bang" era for their firm.

So.. I've found TWO VERY DIFFERENT recommendations for lube for my own PIV drive and know not which one Alzmetall used. Or if they did something else altogether!

Nor am I sure if it even matters, given I'll not use the DP all that much for MY "remaining years".

On that score, the multi-viscosity claim for Alithicon 9700 alone may yet motivate me to bite that six-gallon bullet. If/as/when, there'll be juice enough spare to share-out.

Some again if I go the route for a 5 gal pail of ordinary lube.

Bill

Ok, did not get as much time as I'd hoped with the lathe. However after carefully looking at all the parts of the PIV drive it looks like almost everything is there, except the chain tensioner. As I looked more closely, I can see that whomever did the cone modification WELDED new cones over the old splined cones! I suppose if I am lucky, maybe I can just put them on my other Hendey cut the welds off and have workable sheaves. If I aint, they will have been distorted during the welding process, and i'll be back to looking for a replacement PIV.

The adventure continues...

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We used to have quite a few Link-Belt PIV's around here.Now I think there are only 2 cutters that use 4 ratio drives in their registration system.We just scrapped one of our finishing machines that had a 6 ratio drive in it.I will try to find out what happened to it.

By the way that ratio means that from 1:1 a 6 ratio drive will go 3:1 under to 3:1 over drive(likewise a 4 ratio) not 6:1.

I used to overhaul quite a few of them and still have some parts. Don't count on it but if I can find the time I will see what is available.BTW I found a place that sold the chains for about 1/2 price,the 2-26 chains used to cost 7-8 hundred and found them for less than 3.

If you search on E-Bay try Linkbelt and also Rockwell. I also have some overhaul manuals.

Just for conversation sake,when I started here we had a PIV vertical unit about 4 ft tall that had a wooden block chain in it.We converted it to a steel chain drive.I have since seen several old smaller ones with a wood block chain one on a Cincinatai Bickford radial drill.

M.Latham said:

Ok, did not get as much time as I'd hoped with the lathe. However after carefully looking at all the parts of the PIV drive it looks like almost everything is there, except the chain tensioner. As I looked more closely, I can see that whomever did the cone modification WELDED new cones over the old splined cones! I suppose if I am lucky, maybe I can just put them on my other Hendey cut the welds off and have workable sheaves. If I aint, they will have been distorted during the welding process, and i'll be back to looking for a replacement PIV.

The adventure continues...

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Click to expand...

The grooved drive cones are not impossible to shop-fab. Nor the tensioner. Chain would be more tedious, but that isn't the same as impossible.

That said, the functionality has been carried by a jackleg Reeves VariDrive semi-kludge.

A better one of those, modifed PIV asided outright, would do the job, too. MY PIV'ed critter a 7 HP Alzmetall. The 7 HP Cazeneuve has a Klopp Variator, the 5 HP Quartet mill a Reeves clone, the 3/4 HP Sheldon shaper has another Reeves. MY "simple" machines are actually the two 10EE!!!

Third option for your use here could be a singe or multiple fixed ratio belted (or geared) drive, plus variable speed at the motor from VFD on 3-P or DC motor on DC Drive.

The "good news" is that as with a 10EE, there is NOT a 12, 18, or 24 speed gearcase full of costly straight - or helical - or herringbone - gears with a ration of chipped teeth.

Or so I've been fond of saying...

Even so, the PIV quote is stunning.

That figure actually would buy a from-scratch gear or three even for a legendary Herringbone Sidney.

Let's hope ratbldr427 - or someone - has a lead on some PIV parts. Or an entire drive.

The pulleys on a PIV are made as matched pairs and are marked with an x to assemble correctly.The male tooth must match the female tooth of the opposing pulley on each set or it will eat up the chain.The chain leaves slide back & forth as they engage the pulley(the male side pushes the leaves into the female side and that is what locks everything together).So if someone has taken your unit apart they may have mixed the pulleys up(which wouldn't matter on your unit since they converted to a belt)but if you decide to go back to a chain it's something to consider.Also it very important to set the travel limiters so the chain can't bottom on the splined drive shafts.

I'm hoping to take the PIV out and figure out what can be done in the next few weeks. Where would the X be located?

The chain does not seem to be very worn, but I'm not sure how to judge these things. I will post a picture of the chain tonight. I wish I knew what happened to the drive originally, when it failed and before they changed it over.

The Ah-Ha! moment is here... or how I answered my own question. In the pictures it can be seen that the teeth of the chain are missing in four locations. I will surmise that this was the death of the drive.

Not sure if this chain can be repaired? Any ideas?
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