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I want a shaper, what should I look for?

Cole2534

Cole2534

Diamond
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Location
Oklahoma City, OK
For whatever reason, I need a shaper but I know nothing about them. I've got years on BP's and lathes but not one of these.

Preferably it would weigh less than 2000# and be less than 3HP, after that things get more tricky.

Can someone suggest where I begin to evaluate models, etc?

Thanks, Cole
 
Cincinnati made some small ones, Bridgeport size or smaller, probably less than a ton. I learned how to run them when Southeast Community College in Milford, Nebraska was still mostly a trade school with machinery donated by the US Navy after the end of WWII. As recently as around 1980 the US gov't still had brand new 1940-something shapers in the crates, covered with Cosmolene. How to get one's hands on one of these is another matter, I suppose.
Good luck, and thanks for bringing up some memories. I'm 62 and have never met a guy younger than me who knows how to set up & run a shaper.
 
I know alot of guys like Logan's and similar sized shapers as they are great for garage/educational use. I want one too one day but it seems like it's hard to find a balance between a machine that's big enough to be useful, while being small and light enough to not use up productive space.
 
A shop in DeWitt IA is selling out due to retirement. They had a shaper sitting in the corner. If interested PM me and I will get contact info for the owner.
 
M.B. Naegle said:
I know alot of guys like Logan's and similar sized shapers as they are great for garage/educational use. I want one too one day but it seems like it's hard to find a balance between a machine that's big enough to be useful, while being small and light enough to not use up productive space.
Click to expand...

Im on my third shaper....
The first was an old .... and not complete enough to use for much..
The second was a Logan It was loud and pretty much just a toy....
Presently I have a A7!@$... just to have one...

I would suggest at least a 10"... and maybe new enough not use the flat belts... My experience with flat belt shapers is less than pleasant..And if it is in need of much or many parts they can be hard to find if ya cant make em...
So Im watching for a 10" or 12" at less than a couple tons....
 
Look for "completeness!"

Frequently-missing from shapers:

* A correct shaper vise. A milling vise is not a good substitute.

* Missing pieces on the table advance ratchet mechanism.

* Missing table supports.

* Missing clapper box.

Give it a general look-see for worn ways, including the ways on which the table slides. If it's been used for repetitious production, it may have a very worn area on the horizontal ways.

Weight? Ha! I was once looking at a Potter & Johnston with a tilting table. The machinery dealer asserted that it weighed "about a ton." HA! That thing weighed 5,000 lbs. if it was an ounce ! I didn't buy that one, it was just too much.

If you are not under any time pressure, hold out for something exotic! There are shapers with tilting tables and others called "universal" shapers which actually tilt in two axes. There are also shapers marketed as "tool room" shapers which would seem idea for a shop that doesn't do mass production.

John Ruth


*
 
Shapers..... Well I love them, many will argue the efficiency and so on . I started with the typical small 7" then an 11" that I have now, my next, and you will most likely do the same unless you just want to " have " a shaper not rip metal off , as has been mentioned, make sure it's complete, tooling will kill you no mater how cheap the machine is,,, I will go Rockford hydraulic for the next one 18" plus .. If you want to shape get a machine to grow into, not out of ... Buy one


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I 2nd Raybmarlow, ......get as big and beefy as you can,.......you can do ''light fiddly'' jobs on a big shaper, but you can't do big jobs on a small shaper.

IMO for a given size - a shaper CAN'T be too heavy.

Again + 1 on finding a complete machine, ....as has been said they tend to loose bits over the years.
 
I've got a 12" geared smith mills, I'd certainly agree that more metal and travel is always better. Setups get interesting on the small work envelope it's got, especially when the dividing head comes into play.

Biggest you can find and fit.
 
scottcincolo said:
Cincinnati made some small ones, Bridgeport size or smaller, probably less than a ton. I learned how to run them when Southeast Community College in Milford, Nebraska was still mostly a trade school with machinery donated by the US Navy after the end of WWII. As recently as around 1980 the US gov't still had brand new 1940-something shapers in the crates, covered with Cosmolene. How to get one's hands on one of these is another matter, I suppose.
Good luck, and thanks for bringing up some memories. I'm 62 and have never met a guy younger than me who knows how to set up & run a shaper.
Click to expand...

Hey, I am only 59, and have made lots of chips on Hendy, G&E, and At*%s shapers. Shop foreman was a believer in using a regrindable tool bit, instead of using expensive end mills. We often roughed big parts out on the shaper before going to a mill.
 
Started with a 16" Heavy Hendey plain, then G&E 16" Toolroom Universal, then 36" Ohio plain. Had and scrapped a 36" Gemco Universal without getting it going

Smaller? G&E as above would win for me hands down

What I would LIKE to have? - the 36" Ohio Dreadnought Universal sitting in the Alaska wilderness as we speak

My Ohio getting after a 14" round
 

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Your weight requirement will really limit you. A small Cincinnati (16 inch) would weight over 4000#. A Sheldon may fit the bill. The South Bend and Logans etc are all pretty light duty.
 
12" is about the smallest I would consider for a shaper. Smaller than that, you might as well put a shaper head on the back end of your Bport ram.

Given your limitations, 12" is also about the biggest you can look at. Anything in the 16" realm is well over 3,000lbs and a beefy one will be 5,000. Bad thing is that there are very few in this size range. I think Hendey made a really nice 12" one. I have a Steptoe-Western 12X, which is unfortunately very rare, but one to keep your eyes open for, given the size you are stating.

I originally wanted a huge Cincy or G&E and actually went and looked at a 32" G&E. Beautifully made and seriously heavy duty. Also nearly as big as a small car in terms of floor space. Weight was nearing 9,000lbs. 10hp motor. Way too big for my shop space, too heavy to handle with my trailer and required more power than I could easily deliver.

The S-W 12X is about the same footprint as a Bport or small mill. Weight is under 2,500lbs and it has the optional 2hp motor, which is plenty, given the reduction available with dual 4spd gearboxes.
 
 
Ohio Mike said:
Your weight requirement will really limit you. A small Cincinnati (16 inch) would weight over 4000#. A Sheldon may fit the bill. The South Bend and Logans etc are all pretty light duty.
Click to expand...

Sheldon 12" is 1852 lbs Avoir. It can work a 13" cube, has motor, reduction unit, and Vari-Drive neatly housed in the base. Clean and compact design. Even failry easy to work on, as there are large access panels. My one is from a former HS shop.

And....I'd class it as light duty.

Anything lighter or smaller is basically a time-waster vs even a SMALL horizontal mill.
EG: Burke #4 has about the same long-axis table traverse in less than half the mass and floor footprint, a Nichols mill is better, yet.
 
Were there any American shapers with table ''trips'' .......something to knock the feed and main drive clutch out when cut was done?

I once used a big shaper and can't remember the make, .....but it had a trip / come knock out - which meant once running in the cut you could walk away and get on with something else.

I don't know if it was a factory fitting or a shop brew, (the owner was a clever guy) ........but I know it worked a treat.
 
Limy Sami said:
Were there any American shapers with table ''trips'' .......something to knock the feed and main drive clutch out when cut was done?

I once used a big shaper and can't remember the make, .....but it had a trip / come knock out - which meant once running in the cut you could walk away and get on with something else.

I don't know if it was a factory fitting or a shop brew, (the owner was a clever guy) ........but I know it worked a treat.
Click to expand...

I've seen some that would run the nut off the screw threads when maximum travel was reached... not as elegant, but worked.

In my mind, there are three sort of general size classifications of "modern" (ie. post flat belt era) shaper:

Small/hobby: South Bend, A****, AMMCo/Delta, Lewis, Rhodes, Logan, Shape-Rite, and so on. All generally in the 6" to 8" stroke range and under 1000 lbs.

Medium/home shop: Sheldon/Vernon, Prema, and a few others. Around 12" stroke and under 2000 lbs. This size range is sort of sparsely populated. A few of the industrial makers (below) smallest offerings could be included in this category, though they are often above the 2000 lb. weight.

Heavy/industrial: Cincinnati, Hendey, Gemco, Gould & Eberhardt, Steptoe, American Tool Works, Rockford, and many others. Smallest stroke will generally be 12", and weight will generally be 3000 lbs. and up.

Andy
 
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