A Kerney & Trecker Vertical Mill

99Panhard · Sep 14, 2017

This is for sale locally. Is it worth looking at? I know nothing about this company but he price is right even though I'd have to hire someone to move it... about 50 miles. Everything I've read suggests these were very good machines and, although I'd prefer a B&S, I am thinking there is no real advantage there. I've been looking for a vertical for some time now but I've room for only 1 or 2 more machines so it's worth waiting for good ones.

I'm guessing mid to late 30s with NMTB tapers.

JBoogie · Sep 14, 2017

They are stout, but a drawback is the height of the envelope. Chatter won't be an issue. But if you have a workpiece on a rotary table and want to ream some holes you may be stuck. BUT! Rapids on every axis, wide range of speeds and feeds, enough horsepower to run BIG face mills, standard spindle tooling.....

johnoder · Sep 14, 2017

Excellent Joe - Its a 2CH with 50 taper spindle and 5HP

Plenty of directly applicable info on VM - Add links ON EDIT

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2098/7023.pdf
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2098/6523.pdf
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2098/3446.pdf

Only trouble is without powering up you never know if the internals are scrap or perfect. Both column and knee full of gear shop jewelry

About 4600 lbs

These replaced 2H late forties/early fifties

Scrape the paint off the pad just above Kearney Trecker and read us off the serial for a date. Format will be X-XXXX or XX-XXXX all numeric

ON EDIT....I see the vertical head also has power feeds with the turret stop - fair chance this prominent gizmo shuts off the feed

Derek Smalls · Sep 14, 2017

Kearney & Trecker built awesome machines! If it's in decent shape and everything works, you will absolutely not be disappointed! Check it out really well though, looks like it may be a scrap yard that's selling it, so no telling how it's been treated or what issues it has without really good inspection. Gearboxes full of water and things like that can be a real bummer, and a deal killer.
Z axis work envelope shouldn't be too limiting. Head moves up and down as well as the knee on these, unlike some vertical machines, giving pretty good height from table to spindle when needed.

adh2000 · Sep 14, 2017

I have the identical machine. I don't think that one is late 30s, looks more like late 40s or 50s. Mine is 1950 something and looks identical. You need to run it in all speeds, broken gears are unfortunately common and a real pain to work on. Top speed is a little low for small end mills. Other than that its terrific, power feeds and rapids on all axes.

99Panhard · Sep 14, 2017

Thanks guys... it is a scrap yard and I doubt is under power so there is always an element of chance involved. The tone of the ad however suggests that the scrappie thinks it is too good to scrap... his price ($500) is just about scrap value so it doesn't look as if he's out to make a killing. I'll call tomorrow. Unfortunately, I'm up to my eyeballs in real work but I'll have to make the time to go up there.

Oh... and 50 taper is a big plus as I've already got that for my B&S. The idea is to be able to use the B&S horizontal as a horizontal. I find myself reluctant to move the vertical head any more than I have to, even though it's really not such a big job. And... I'd really like to be able to move the quill down rather than bring the table up. I guess I'm just getting lazy!

jp

JBoogie · Sep 14, 2017

Another note on a machine like this, it will make a mess of your shop and tear up your boots in a hurry. They are metal munchers of thee highest order and if asked to do so will fill 5 gallon pails with chips as fast as you can sweep them up.

Even if not in ideal condition aside from the rigging $500 is a steal. There is a lot of stuff going on in that column and knee like stated above but they're built so heavy that it would take a real dummy to break stuff. That said, it's worth seeing if you can have them drag it to the nearest 3 phase panel and scabbing some power to it.

As far as doing any large drilling, etc, that's what camel backs are for. You can do very accurate boring in a machine like that. RIGIDITY!!!! Add a DRO and you are all set.

99Panhard · Sep 14, 2017

My feeling too. Of course I'll try to get it running but I'm not optimistic although I can see some SO cord wrapped around the back of the machine. Perhaps it has a plug... That said, I'm very easy on my machines. I am, after all, just a hobbiest, even if I have an odd notion of what constitutes a "hobby" machine. I want the size mostly to accommodate fairly large work pieces for face milling and boring. Also, 99% of the machines I've found locally are BPs and BP cones... often clapped out and ALWAYS much more expensive. If I had one, I'd use it as a glorified drill press. There is a round ram BP for sale about 2 blocks from my shop for only slightly more than 3 times the price of this machine. If I have to pay a rigger to move it, the actual weight (of machines this size) is almost inconsequential.

Tyrone Shoelaces · Sep 15, 2017

Really good machines in my opinion. A toss up between " K & T " and " Cincy " as to who made the best conventional milling machines. I can vouch for the broken gears in the column box, it does happen. Beware of coolant rot in the knee box. Take a shifter ( adjustable wrench ) with you and remove the knee drain plug. See what comes out, if it's oil - great. If it's coolant, consider walking away.

Regards Tyrone.

99Panhard · Sep 15, 2017

I called. I'm going up to see it Monday. There's no way to run it and I doubt there is any additional tooling - which isn't an issue although it would be good to have. This looks like it will be a "best guess" sort of situation with an element of risk involved but that probably comes with my budget. It doesn't sound as if people are lining up around the block for this one but then the overpriced Bridgeports on CL aren't selling either if the length of time the ads are running is any clue.

jp

Thanks Tyrone... if you are ever in the area, there is a wonderful Cincy "see through" demonstrator milling machine in the Birmingham Museum storage facility. I was given a tour there a few years ago with a British friend (a professor of Engineering)... whose father worked at the British Cincinnati plant. He was really excited about it.

Andy FitzGibbon · Sep 15, 2017

If you can't power it up, you can still open the side door and try all speeds/feeds by pulling the belts manually. That'll at least tell you if something is seriously wrong (broken) inside.

Great machines- I have a 2H vertical.

Andy

99Panhard · Sep 15, 2017

Thanks, that's a good tip.
One thing that does concern me is that it might be too wide to go through my door. I have 51-52" to work with. I'm wondering how complicated it would be to lift the table off. When my B&S 2A came in, the table was already off although being a Universal we could have rotated it to get through the door. It's not my building and it is in a neighborhood where you really don't want to be leaving things out - even if they do way 2-1/2 tons. I'm sure I can do it, and have the tools, but I'd rather not unless it is necessary. I'll have to remember to measure the height as well but I don't think that will be a problem.

jp

Monarchist · Sep 15, 2017

99Panhard said:
Thanks, that's a good tip.
One thing that does concern me is that it might be too wide to go through my door. I have 51-52" to work with. I'm wondering how complicated it would be to lift the table off. When my B&S 2A came in, the table was already off although being a Universal we could have rotated it to get through the door. It's not my building and it is in a neighborhood where you really don't want to be leaving things out - even if they do way 2-1/2 tons. I'm sure I can do it, and have the tools, but I'd rather not unless it is necessary. I'll have to remember to measure the height as well but I don't think that will be a problem.

jp

Do check the height!

It WAS an issue with my "Quartet" as the 17 1/2 foot WIDE garage door opening is but 76" tall. Both the 7 foot ten inch AB5/S uber-drillpress and the only slightly less tall Quartet combo mill went in laid flat on a timber sled, four of Northern Tool's 4,400 lb rated skates, 6" x 6" x 3/8" steel angle "toe plate".

Visualize as a reefer dolly on steroids.

Otherwise, pull only the table, not the entire knee.

johnoder · Sep 15, 2017

2CH table is 50" plus about 7" on left end (for handwheel, etc) and 2" on right end (for driving DH gear train)

There will be a loose piece at rear of table on this machine - having to do with coolant return. Don't let it get away in the process of removing table

99Panhard said:
Thanks, that's a good tip.
One thing that does concern me is that it might be too wide to go through my door. I have 51-52" to work with. I'm wondering how complicated it would be to lift the table off. When my B&S 2A came in, the table was already off although being a Universal we could have rotated it to get through the door. It's not my building and it is in a neighborhood where you really don't want to be leaving things out - even if they do way 2-1/2 tons. I'm sure I can do it, and have the tools, but I'd rather not unless it is necessary. I'll have to remember to measure the height as well but I don't think that will be a problem.

jp

99Panhard · Sep 15, 2017

This is good to know. I'll look at it closely. If I buy it, I will have to pull the table to get it in the door. That isn't anything like a deal breaker but it is good to know beforehand so I can prepare. We put the table on the B&S with an engine hoist. It was more awkward than difficult and I had the table off another horizontal, though not a big as this one, twice. Whoever delivers it will have to drop it outside the door... at least it will be near all the tools but I can see a couple of hours(or more) doing it carefully. I've no intention of pulling the knee... that would be a bear of a job and not necessary.

Monarchist · Sep 15, 2017

99Panhard said:
We put the table on the B&S with an engine hoist. It was more awkward than difficult

If you didn't already, last go.. run four allthread "posts" up off the Tee-slots. Fab a spreader bar. Chain works. Decent timber (and I do NOT mean "white wood" 2 X 4's!) will do. Otherwise, the bugger wants to tilt, long-axis, and roll, short-axis.

Mike C. · Sep 16, 2017

Might can crank the table all the way to one side, put it through the door sideways, crank the table all the way to the other side, and rotate it in. I have put airplanes with 20ft wingspans through a 10ft door.

crrmeyer · Sep 16, 2017

Mike C. said:
Might can crank the table all the way to one side, put it through the door sideways, crank the table all the way to the other side, and rotate it in. I have put airplanes with 20ft wingspans through a 10ft door.

I have done similar putting Bridgeport mills through standard doors. Take a few measurements and convince yourself it is doable with paper cutouts.

99Panhard · Sep 16, 2017

That might possibly work. There is only about 14" between the door frame and a wall on one side. On the other side is a steel table covered with Hendey parts. But... if it would work, it would be easier to move the table and parts outside while we did the mill than it would be to take it apart. I'll certainly check it out beforehand. Just for once I'd like to get a machine that I didn't have to disassemble and reassemble before I could use it.. I think that may have happened once, about 35 years ago. It certainly hasn't happened recently.

jp

Bill in PA · Sep 16, 2017

Hand crank each axis its full range. See how tight it gets at the end of the travel. Take some oil and screw driver. The gibs are easy to adjust. The Y axis is the first to go.

The ways are soft. Tough to do fine work with worn ways.

The ways on mine are shot. It only gets used for hoggin'.

Remember, there is no quill. Running small drills can be tricky.

Bill

A Kerney & Trecker Vertical Mill

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