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the last steam winder

Thank you for posting this link. I really appreciate seeing the winding engine and the engineer. The engineer makes it look too easy, and does not mention the responsibility that being the engineer on a winding engine in a working mine carries with it. He is responsible for the lives and safety of the miners, regardless of what safety features may be in use on the shaft cages. I always marvel at the fact that the Germans adopted poppet valves for their steam engines while we, in the USA, seemed to cling to slide valves, piston valves, or the rotary (Corliss) type valves. The type valves we kept on using in the USA, when worn, were more work to reseat and get steam-tight again, and may not have given so accurate a control of cutoff as the poppet valves and cams.

Of course, the engine room is clean, and the engine free from steam leaks and gunk. Just a nice patina of old oil, not slathered with many coats of paint. You can see the love that engineer has for the engine and the traditions. Some things are universal, like loving the smell of the warm cylinder oil. I suppose when that engine ceases to run in regular use, it may well also be the end of deep (underground) coal mining in Germany ?

Maybe I'd better start planning a trip there with my wife while that engine is still in active service, but whether the mine would allow visitors would have to be researched.
 
Richard -

That would be a good idea. Only trouble would be probably nobody in NY would ever allow the thing to run, as any kind of mine shaft would most likely not pass muster! But maybe Joe could figure out some other way to utilize it.

Dale
 
Dale & Richard:

Thanks for the kind words. If anyone is likely to move a mine winding engine and re=erect it, Rick Rowlands would be the most likely. The happy truth is that the Germans seem to make an effort to preserve their industrial past, as well as preserving and keeping things like steam ice breakers operational and in steam regularly. Unfortunately, here in the USA, the same cannot be said. Unless a successful grass roots effort is mounted, or some influential people get into the loop, most preservation projects die along the way. The efforts to rebuild and return the coastal steamer "Nobska" is one such example, and the water pumping plant near Boston is another. The Nobska wound up as scrap, and the water pumping plant, with some incredible examples of steam pumping engines was mostly scrapped to make way for condos and trendy shops. I'd like to think the Germans will make some effort to preserve this last steam winder. It is too historic NOT to be preserved.

I think of the old ore carriers and the Hullets and so many other wonderful examples of working steam or industrial equipment ( like the Hullet unloaders). Instead of preserving some portion where it sat, intact, they wind up dismantled and laying in some outdoor boneyard awaiting the day they can be re-erected to show what once was. Fat chance of that with something like the Hullet unloaders. The old ore carriers which were in steam into the 1980's had some fine triple expansion engines in them. None, other than the "Valley Camp" at Sault Ste. Marie, MI, were preserved. The few preserved classic ore carriers all have turbines in them. The "Edna G", the last steam tug in active service to fly the US flag, sits at her dock in Two Harbors, MN, preserved but no plans to put her back in steam. She was in steam well into the 1980's. At least she was not cut up, but she did sit there until a full-blown asbestos abatement was done.

On the home front, which I mean quite literally, we are engaged in a fight for survival to keep the Catskill Mountain Railroad from being torn up for yet another Rail Trail. The amount of dirty fighting and plain underhandedness by the Ulster County Executive and this prize "Ecofacist" who is a self-appointed advocate for the rail trail is not to be believed. I am not going to write down all that has gone on, but suffice it to say that truth, logic, and anything rational does not prevail.
If anyone dragged in a German winding engine, they'd be confronted with the ecofacists hollering about asbestos, calling it a public health hazard (as they did to some of our old railroad passenger coaches awaiting restoration), and pull every quasi-legal manuver and overblown melodrama to beat the people with the winding engine to death so they would abandon and go away. As I said, we are in the fight of our lives, with the Rail Trail people trying to take 30 years of hard work from us, including rebuilding multispan steel railroad bridges, for a rail trail. They have every other former branch RR line in our county already as rail trails, but this one ecofacist has fixed her sights on our railroad, and the county exec has sided with her and come after us. Nothing about this is either just, rational, nor makes any sense fiscally or otherwise.

Better the engine stays in Germany with people who appreciate it and will care for it. Incidentally, the German word for scrapped is "verschrottet". I go to this German steam engine site pretty regularly to browse and daydream. All too often, you see engines that were in service into the 1980's with the word "verschrottet". Fortunately, a great number of stationary and marine steam engines, as well as winding engines are preserved or plans made to preserve them. Some have been relocated to museums, and some few still can be put in steam. A far cry from the USA, sorry to say.

Actually, I do have a few somewhat different uses for that winding engine, now that Dale mentions the idea. I won't elaborate.
 
Thanks for posting the link to the video.

When I last inquired about it a couple of years ago, I was told the Vulcan steam winder at Avery Island was still in use and had twenty years of service left before the mine would be exhausted. Pics and drawings can be found by searching Vulcan Avery Island at: Historic American Buildings Survey/Historic American Engineering Record/Historic American Landscapes Survey (HABS/HAER) (American Memory from the Library of Congress)

Though not nearly as large, I spotted a pair of these steam winches on a barge on the Hudson River at 40th Street last month. Not sure, but it looks like they might still be running on air:
http://piersa2001.smugmug.com/Other/Hoist-Misc/i-88bkmvg/0/L/NYC art expo WC etc 3-24-13 109-L.jpg

Joe, please do mention the uses. If you need a smaller steam winch, just say so. There are two that can probably be had as a donation in western PA. One is a double drum Lambert and the other is a triple drum American Hoist & Derrick.
http://piersa2001.smugmug.com/Other/Hoist-Misc/i-pjstmKR/0/L/detroit trip 12-12 336-L.jpg
http://piersa2001.smugmug.com/Other/Hoist-Misc/i-bncwL6X/0/L/detroit trip 12-12 330-L.jpg
http://piersa2001.smugmug.com/Other/Hoist-Misc/i-KTVcSww/0/L/detroit trip 12-12 213-L.jpg

There are several 1950s-60s era piston valve steam winches at the same place, but those are slated for diesel conversion or presumably sale as-is.
http://piersa2001.smugmug.com/Other/Hoist-Misc/i-t5m3Jvg/0/L/detroit trip 12-12 207-L.jpg

PM me for details if you are interested in any of them. Also, Andy Burr in Honesdale, PA, had a small steam winch for sale for $500 a summer or two ago. Sterling Hill Mining Museum in NJ was also willing to sell some of their 19 or so steam winches when I was last there a couple of years back.
 
Yes, that will be me someday, sitting in a cushy chair staring at the Tod as her wheel goes round and round!

Ah, the Huletts. There are only two left, as Joe mentions sitting dismantled in Cleveland at Whisky Island. Such a shame that nobody with any sense and passion has taken that project on. No I'm not going to Cleveland to save the Huletts! Physically reassembling a hulett in a new location is not insurmountable, dealing with the politicians, busybodies and people in general is.

I enjoy the occasional rigging challenge, and if there is someone with an historic engine somewhere that needs moved, and they are willing to pay my expenses and a little more to make it worth my time I'll go anywhere to do the job.

For this winding engine, the entire mine should become an historic site when it is closed. Lets just hope that the Gernamn govt. doesn't have the same ludicrous reclaimation laws that we have here in the U.S. That is really what doomed Big Muskie. According to US law all machinery has to be removed from a closed down mine site and of course the politicians did not think to add an exemption for historic landmarks.
 
Mike,

Thanks for the link to the Avery Island mine, I had not heard of this before. Well worth looking through the photos.

I see one photo shows the arrival of the Vulcan Iron Works, Wilkes Barre, PA. hoisting engine in 1899.

Hopefully, these will show a few of the photos:

LOC Photo Display

LOC Photo Display

LOC Photo Display

Drawing of engine:

LOC Photo Display

There seems to be quite a big space at the 1300 ft level!

LOC Photo Display

Rusty Marion shovel at the 500 ft level:

LOC Photo Display

Main: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampag...nd, Iberia Parish, LA&displayType=1&maxCols=4
 
Our area is very proud of a rail-trail along the Greenbrier River which was built (or un-built) before I came here. So now umpteen tons a day of sawdust go to paper mill 50 miles away by Diesel truck, rather than by potentially sawdust-powered steam train.

If "ecology" really is presented as a rational argument for tearing up rails for a recreational trail, logic would overwhelmingly save the rails.

Figures don't lie, but liars figure.
 
Steam Winder testing

to view this clip--click on frame labeled "man and machine" adjacent
to video window


Window on Germany | Germany Today | DW.DE

jh

I have what I believe to be a device for testing the efficiency of a steam winder. It has been passed down to me from my Grandfather who was an engineer in a mine in South Wales in the 1930's. Can anyone give me any information on the device ? Leighton greyIMG_0588.jpgIMG_0588.jpg
 
It is indeed for testing the performance of steam engines. It’s a McInnes-Dobbie engine indicator.

Chapter and verse on indicators here (60 page pdf):-

http://cincinnatitriplesteam.org/documents/The%20Engine%20Indicator%20by%20John%20Walter.pdf

A sheet of paper is fixed to the shiny cylinder. The cylinder is made to rotate through part of a revolution by the string, which would be attached to a suitable part of the reciprocating engine.

There’s a slender arm with a pen on the end which is made to move up and down by a spring-loaded piston. The piston is activated by steam tapped off the engine cylinder.

As the engine works, the pen draws a trace on the paper, producing a closed-loop curve representing steam pressure vs volume. The area within the plotted loop represents the work done by that side of the cylinder. Knowing the stroke time (from the speed of the engine), the horsepower can be determined (the indicated horsepower). The shape of the curve reveals all sorts of things to the trained eye. The process would be repeated for the other side of the cylinder, and for the other cylinder of the pair (there were usually two cylinders on large winding engines).

I’m sure others will chip in with better explanations.
 








 
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