Magic Beans, or rather my Star #10 lathe, intro and advice - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Thanks for the heads up, Projectnut. I saw all the catalogs, and that website has some great info. Currently I have in my possession a 96, 40, 24, and an unlabeled gear that was used as a spacer off the lead screw assembly. Are the slots on the bearings wear indicators as well as an oil channel?

  2. #22
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    Some photos of a similar machine for your reference:
















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  4. #23
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    The ways look good. While your spindle is out,thoroughly clean out the oil wells. It will then go on for ever-ring oilers are a very good feature of S F lathes.

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    Hey Projectnut, what is the proper way to stop the spindle from spinning to remove the chuck? I read on another post somewhere that using the planetary gear changer will most certainly cause broken teeth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaggysShack View Post
    Hey Projectnut, what is the proper way to stop the spindle from spinning to remove the chuck? I read on another post somewhere that using the planetary gear changer will most certainly cause broken teeth.
    I remove my chucks by leaving the drive in high speed, inserting the key in the chuck and giving it a tap with a dead blow hammer. In my case no single chuck has been on long enough to get rusted or otherwise seized to the spindle. I have 6 different chucks that are interchanged on a regular basis. Also this machine has been in the family for 80 years or more so it's never set unused for more than a week or two at a time.

    My lathe was originally used by my wife's grandfather in a prototype shop for a local vending machine building company. When he retired in the 1950's it was given to him as a retirement present. He used it regularly in his home shop until his passing in the 1970's. It then went to my father in law who used it regularly in his shop until his passing in 1999. I've had it in my shop since then.

    As for the grooves in the bearings I suppose they would be a good indicator of wear, however as you suggest their main purpose is to channel oil. In my case I would suspect they are the originals, and still appear to be in good condition. Looking at the wear and grooves on your spindle bearings I would leave them as is and use shim stock to get the proper clearance. I believe the machine originally came with a shim stack at each bolt on the front and rear bearings. As wear developed the shims could be removed to maintain the proper clearance.

    To check clearance you can get what's called Plasti-Gauge at almost any auto supply store. It's a long plastic filament inside a paper sleeve. The filament is removed from the sleeve and placed on the spindle. The bearing cap is then reinstalled and tightened. The plastic will flatten and can be measured with the gauge on the sleeve. It's commonly used to check bearing clearances when rebuilding engines.

    I use shims originally intended for rod bearings on pre 1950 cars that used Babbitt main and rod bearings. The shims come in stacks with each shim being .001 thick. They are available from businesses that cater to antique car restorers.

  8. #26
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    Alright, we'll just been cleaning the thing more and more as I have time. Owning a house keeps me pretty busy, the honeydo list seems to never end. Hopefully enough people are still reading this to help me get the gears turning, so to speak.

    On to the next phase of the #10, powering this thing up. So I am a huge diy'er, and decent scrapper. Over the years my scrap heap has traveled with me and I remembered that I have an odd bit that could potentially help out. I need some opinions before I start heading in a direction that will lead me to a dead end.

    Through my acquisitions, I received an electric hoist from a hotel. They were using it to hoist chandeliers to the ceiling. To my understanding, everything was in good working order when it came to me. I've pulled it apart somewhat to assess how to use it. Pictures are below, but I'll describe it anyway. Everything on this looks dated which will match up to what I have. Power comes out of a single phase 120v GE 1/3hp motor, to a step down belt drive, I think 3" on the small and 6" on the large. From there it enters a right angle worm drive of 50 to 1. At the end of this shaft was a large drum with which the wire sat.

    So my ideas are as follows, trying to use as much as possible.
    Change the pulleys on the motor drive to gear box to be a 1:1 ratio, this then gets the input of the worm drive going at 1750. Is that too high? The output comes out to 35. With the appropriate size pulley on the output of the worm, I could just connect my belt to the lathe cone from there.
    Notice how the worm box has a large flat wide pulley on the backside. Could I use the worm box as my countershaft and just lob off a piece of the worms output shaft?
    I like the idea of using the worm drive to feed the lathe, good step down to really get the torque up. But now that I think about it, I'd have to pull belt tension off to backfeed anything. On to the electrics! Hopefully someone can spot this and knows what they're doing. It looks like on the deck of this was a pair of contractors, a transformer for it, and then a separate transformer off to the side that has a slideable center section. I have no idea what that last transformer is for. Please help identify. This all looks to me like a forward/reverse contractor setup, correct? Should I just try to retain it to power the motor or is there an easier way? The red box is a vintage switch that was attached to my lathe when I got it that looks of the same vintage as the motor, cool! Well, as usual, all ideas and criticism are welcome.
    img_2392.jpg
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  9. #27
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    Normally, a chuck is removed by engaging both the direct drive (slide detent on gear just behind the chuck that locks the spindle to the step pulley) AND engaging the back-gear. Doing both of these effectively "locks" the spindle in place.

    Although some care & sensibility is required to not break the cast iron geartrain - you don't want to take a slugging hammer to the chuck or otherwise impact the chuck in attempts to get it to move.

    You can "ease" into some torque on the chuck to remove it with a pry-bar or piece of pipe. You may even have to "tie down" the engagement lever for the back gear as it may be wont to disengage under the force.

    Many have suggested somehow holding ONLY the step pulley in place with an humongous strap wrench - this way you prevent any possible damage to those hard to fix and frequently impacted back gears.

    Or - final solution - take the lathe apart and with the spindle/chuck somehow held in an uber vise, try to get it off with modest amounts of heat (I would suggest this before except for those likely babbitted spindle bearings nearby.)

    Good luck with this. Many have "been there done that" and I don't expect I've given all methods to remove a stuck chuck.

    Joe in NH

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    Locking the back gear and direct drive together and forcing the chuck off is effective as long as excessive force isn't used as Joe said. But when a chuck is really stuck people tend to lose their common sense and break teeth out (I've repaired several broken bull or back gears myself).
    The problem is that people totally lose awareness of the strain when they don't get their way in the moment.

    There are only three or four teeth engaged at best, as the forces normally required in turning aren't that great, plus I believe a moving gear can take more strain than one locked up.
    The best way to remember to avoid over stressing the gears is to have to repair a few lathe gears that have obviously been broken that way (or possibly in a crash, though that usually results in many more teeth). After the effort that entails one won't forget how much time is wasted by a moment's excess.

    To get a stuck chuck off of a rare lathe I bought which the previous owner had done this atrocity to I got a piece of scrap aluminum plate 1/2" thick, and used the vertical band saw to cut it so it sat vertically on the bedway, while above an arc was cut to fit the bullgear. Then I carefully marked the aluminum as it sat next to the bull gear and scribed where the teeth needed to be cut. It took perhaps 20 minutes with the vertical saw to cut very crude "teeth" into that concave aluminum arc, and they fit the bullgear's teeth through about twenty teeth.
    Of course at that point the stress required to break the engaged teeth would exceed the bolt strength of the bearing caps, in short, it worked to remove the chuck which had probably been stuck there for 30 or more years.

    This aluminum plate will stay with the lathe when my heirs sell it.
    Thanks to photobucket I can't show what the plate looks like anymore, as they have the only copy of my photo.

    The point is that it took so little time to make that it seems crazy to force a locked up spindle to remove a chuck by comparison.

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  12. #29
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    This primer might help with the drive: http://www.lathes.co.uk/countershaft

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  14. #30
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    About 40 years ago I started to fix up a Seneca Falls lathe much like yours when I was still a student.
    I sold it to someone to make room for another project before I completed it .
    The drive I started to build was something along the lines of the setup shown in this link that I found on Google that you would find on many old South Bends.
    I used angle Iron and flat bar welded together to make the frame and added some pillow block ball bearings to support the counter shaft.
    I think you might find it easier to make a simpler version of this to adapt to your lathe than something using using you gear box.
    http://k80jim.smugmug.com/Machines/S...30_5H3ij-L.jpg
    South Bend and others had this type of arrangement in the link below but I feel that they are more top heavy so you would want to have the lathe well anchored down if you went with this type.
    http://www.wswells.com/sn/sn_images/42520.jpg
    I was going to post a link that turned up on Google to Tony’s site for some more information but he got here first.
    Here is a link to a description of a unit including a clutch that Seneca Falls built for their lathes from 1909
    Internet Archive: Error
    I wonder how many of those are left out there?
    If the counter shaft cone pulley that is the correct match for your headstock pulley would fit in a South Bend counter shaft unit you might be able to find a used one of those on line for a reasonable price and use that and save your self a lot of fabrication work.
    When I was working on my lathe in the days before the internet finding used parts at a reasonable price was more difficult so I resorted to fabricating something .

    My lathe was also missing the tailstock and I made replacement for it .
    Unfortunately I don’t have any photos of it but I still have the pattern I used to cast an auminum top body for it .
    I made the base from a piece of cast iron from a scrapped wood working machine .
    I will try and post more about that later.
    Regards,
    Jim

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    You may find that a careful reading of Tony's countershaft/jackshaft exposition (#29 above) will be quite useful.

    -Marty-

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    Jim, I had the same idea! I decided to look towards SB because it looks as their cone drives are similar in size. I'd love to try to find a full set with motor and pulleys but it's just a bit out of my price range right now. It is the simplest solution to the problem, bar none.

    Although... the more I think about it, the more I like to worm drive idea. The motor goes into a direct 2:1, jumping rpm's down to 900, then 50:1 from there, down to just 18 rpm. If I make wooden pulleys of correct size, my lowest could be a 1:1 ratio for a spindle speed of 18. Really puts me in the hallpark I need. The 50:1 is such a high ratio that I don't think my small pulleys will skip. The only thing I need to do now is find some scrap bed frames so I can steal the angled metal.

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    No new changes as of late... the shack will be built in the next couple of weeks, and then the machine will have its home.

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    I've been slowly accumulating parts while I wait for fair weather to get the shack done. eBay is great! I grabbed some threading tools, tool holders, dead center, and a tail stock with a 2" riser. Anyone got any fantastic ideas on how I can make a mating block for a riser for the head stock? The alignment of the groove is so critical.

  19. #35
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    Got your chuck off yet?

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    Long time ago! It actually wasn't difficult at all, I was just trying to avoid damaging the gear teeth. Upon closer examination, some teeth have already been broken and repaired in the past. Just a couple days ago I got the first use out of it, spun by hand. I machined a recess for a thermostat in a coolant housing for my Miata. Successful, I finally have heat in the car!

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