Old Hendey lathe crossfeed help needed- any stubborn bolt removal tips?

ILerik · Mar 12, 2021

I bought an old Hendey conehead lathe a few weeks ago. The crossfeed handle will turn 180 degrees and then stops. The crossfeed "table" moves slightly. I removed the compound feed and then removed the "plug" that connects the crossfeed screw to the table and the table does slide, so the issue must be with a gear in the apron. The clutch knob seems to work ok (turning it clockwise will jam up the crossfeed tight).

Thinking that there is a jammed gear or broken tooth in the apron, I started to remove the apron (I did research about how to do this) but I am having trouble loosening the two screws on the tailstock end of the ways that hold the bracket that holds the far right end of the leadscrew and shifting rod. Those two vertical screws wont budge. I have tried an impact driver (hand held type that you strike with a hammer). I also tried using my heavy duty cordless impact with the impact "socket" attached. Still no luck. Next I tried to spin them with a hammer and round punch. Still no luck. My ideas are to either heat the area up with my oxyacetelene torch and then try, or to just drill them out and retap them. Any suggestions on how to remove these two stubborn bolts? (there is penetrating oil on top of the screws in the pic)

My other idea was to leave the apron where it is and remove the acme crossfeed screw and possibly just remove the small gear on it that is driven by the large gear in the apron. That way I would still have a working crossfeed- it just wouldn't have the powerfeed option. Would it be very easy to remove the crossfeed handle and acme screw and then remove the small gear?

Any input would be appreciated.

johnoder · Mar 13, 2021

maybe look at...

Have a taper attachment?

CS screw is anchored in a sliding block clamped in place by a long square head set screw thru one of the rear carriage saddle wings

ILerik · Mar 13, 2021

Thanks for the input and the picture! Yes- it does have a taper attachment. I just loosened that jam bolt and the crossfeed knob still only moves about 180 degrees.

The crossfeed table would move about 1/16 inch when the crossfeed knob was moved 180 degrees. I have removed the round plug that connects the crossfeed table to the "nut" on the crossfeed acme screw and I was able to scoot the crossfeed table backwards so the issue seems to be in the gearing in the apron (at least that is my guess).

I just tried to loosen the 4 screws that hold the carriage to the apron and found that I am going to have an issue getting those out as well. Maybe I can lift off the entire "saddle" with the apron still connected, but I will still need to remove the leadscrew and direction control rod- and it seems that in order to accomplish that, I will still need to remove the bracket on the tailstock end of the lathe.

hendeyman · Mar 13, 2021

ILerik:

Putting your bolt problems aside for the moment, the simplest way to ascertain your gear problem is to move the Cross Slide back towards
the rear of the Carriage and move or remove the Dust Cover Plate. this will expose the Cross Feed Gear. The next step, and in your case possibly a hard one, will be to unscrew the four bolts and lower the Apron about one inch. Just in case the bolts aren't long enough, put some support under the Apron so it doesn't put any unnecessary strain on the Leadscrew,Reversing Shaft or the Auto-stop rod. By lowering the Apron, the Cross Feed Screw Gear and Cross Feed Screw Intermediate Gear are now disengaged. Try turning the Cross Feed Screw to determine if the binding problem is with the Screw. Next, using your finger, if it will fit, or a dowel, try to move the Intermediate Gear, with the Feed Clutch disengaged. If it is stuck, sometimes, trying to rotate it using the dowel against the teeth will work, if not, the Apron will have to come off for servicing. If you do have to remove the Apron, it will be a good time to check all gear teeth, especially the Rack Gear and Pinion, the Thrust Collars and the Hook Keys. Post your results and we will give you any help that we can.

Hendeyman

ILerik · Mar 14, 2021

Thanks Hendeyman- Unfortunately, those 4 bolts that hold the apron to the carriage are also stuck. My next idea is to remove the crossfeed screw and pull the small gear on the crossfeed screw out. The lathe has a taper attachement.

I can feel a nut under the end of the crossfeed shaft that turns when the shaft turns. Is it reasonable to think that if I remove that nut, I should be able to pull the crossfeed screw out the front of the lathe and the gear driven by the apron will slide off? For now, I will just leave that gear off and then reinsert the crossfeed screw.

I know that this isn't a "repair" but this is my first lathe and I am excited to learn to use it. As it is now (with a stuck crossfeed), I can't use it at all.

johnoder · Mar 14, 2021

I should be able to pull the crossfeed screw out the front of the lathe

Its anchored in the thrust block the long set screw is clamping - nut on very back end. Trust bearings front and rear of that block

Here are some things that have worked for me in the dim past on bolts with screwdriver slots:

MAKE tools that are a tight solid fit in the slot (Hopefully before you ruin the slot). Screw driver "sockets" are natural starting places for such tools - being made of the right stuff

Build rigs (like using Hendeys tee slots) to keep tool from backing out of slot as you break it loose

ILerik · Mar 14, 2021

Thanks John- it sounds like the thrust bearings may be tricky to work with/get back together right.

I will try making a tool next. I know that my screwdriver tip has only engaged the center third of the bolt's slot and I could get more leverage if I had something that would reach across the whole slot. I will grind the end of a grade 5,1/2" diameter bolt to match the screw slot, then try that. I think I can use my dremmel tool to clean up the slot distortion I have caused so far so that the tool will fit tightly in the slot.

johnoder · Mar 14, 2021

it sounds like the thrust bearings may be tricky to work with/get back together right.

Lucky you they are only washer style "bearings" - PLUS most of CS "slop" is traced to this lash up - not worn screw or "nut". You can have NEW screw and "nut" and still get .100" "slop" from un-snugged thrust washers

hendeyman · Mar 14, 2021

ILerik:

The Cross Feed Screw can NOT be removed from the front of the Carriage. The front section of the Screw is smooth with a featherway milled
along its length, the featherway stops where the threaded potion of the Screw begins. The Cross Feed Screw Gear has an integral inverted
key broached into it. To install the Gear, it is necessary to feed the Screw from the back of the carriage to the front. The Gear is
located in a cavity near the front of the Carriage and the Screw is guided through the Gear and made to extend out the front of the Carriage. The key in the Gear prevents any forward movement of the Screw once the Screw Thread is contacted. With the Taper Attachment in
use, the Cross Feed Screw has a wide range of travel when moving to the rear of the Carriage, but limited travel when traveling toward
the front of the Carriage. These traveling limitations are not really noticeable under normal operating conditions, so it isn't very
apparent that the Screw can't be removed from the front of the Carriage.

Hendeyman

dundeeshopnut · Mar 14, 2021

While I didn't have to do it on my Hendey, I have had excellent luck with wire welding a nut to damaged socket head or big screws. The heat from welding tends to heat only the fastener and when it cools you can use an impact or your best lucky wrench to remove it.

ILerik · Mar 14, 2021

Thanks for that info Hendeyman- you probably saved me a fair amount of time trying to get the crossfeed screw out of the front of the carriage. Hopefully I will have enough time to make a bolt removal tool tomorrow.

ILerik · Mar 14, 2021

dundeeshopnut said:
While I didn't have to do it on my Hendey, I have had excellent luck with wire welding a nut to damaged socket head or big screws. The heat from welding tends to heat only the fastener and when it cools you can use an impact or your best lucky wrench to remove it.

Thanks for the tip- I will use this as a last resort if I can't make a tool with a shape to match the wide slot of these bolts.

millermachine · Mar 14, 2021

Heat it up hot enough and to melt wax into it.
Brian

ILerik said:
I bought an old Hendey conehead lathe a few weeks ago. The crossfeed handle will turn 180 degrees and then stops. The crossfeed "table" moves slightly. I removed the compound feed and then removed the "plug" that connects the crossfeed screw to the table and the table does slide, so the issue must be with a gear in the apron. The clutch knob seems to work ok (turning it clockwise will jam up the crossfeed tight).

Thinking that there is a jammed gear or broken tooth in the apron, I started to remove the apron (I did research about how to do this) but I am having trouble loosening the two screws on the tailstock end of the ways that hold the bracket that holds the far right end of the leadscrew and shifting rod. Those two vertical screws wont budge. I have tried an impact driver (hand held type that you strike with a hammer). I also tried using my heavy duty cordless impact with the impact "socket" attached. Still no luck. Next I tried to spin them with a hammer and round punch. Still no luck. My ideas are to either heat the area up with my oxyacetelene torch and then try, or to just drill them out and retap them. Any suggestions on how to remove these two stubborn bolts? (there is penetrating oil on top of the screws in the pic)

View attachment 316354

My other idea was to leave the apron where it is and remove the acme crossfeed screw and possibly just remove the small gear on it that is driven by the large gear in the apron. That way I would still have a working crossfeed- it just wouldn't have the powerfeed option. Would it be very easy to remove the crossfeed handle and acme screw and then remove the small gear?

View attachment 316355

Any input would be appreciated.

jim rozen · Mar 15, 2021

Unfortunately the zero-option in a situation like this is to work up a drill fixture of some kind to accurately center in the shank of the bolt, and drill it out in steps until you can remove the remaining 'helicoil' of threads in the leadscrew bracket. Often one can re-tap it so it's like new once you done. Obviously the buggered slots in the heads means you need to have a real good, solid fixture, bolted or clamped somehow to the bed.

ILerik · Mar 17, 2021

Thank you all for the advice.

I ended up getting 5 of the 6 bolts loose with lots of patience, a 5 lb hammer and flat punch (striking the bolt head off center and at an angle to spin it loose).

The 6th bolt wouldn't turn (it was one of the inner bolts holding the apron to the carriage)- even with a helper striking it at the same time with their own hammer/punch 180 degrees from where I was hitting it. So- I used a 3/4" hole saw to saw the outside of the head off until I reached the bottom of the head- then I was able to loosen it by spinning it a few degrees with the punch, then I tapped an easy out into the center of the bolt and turned it out. Unfortunately, I did enlarge the hole- but hopefully all will be well because the other three bolts should fit tightly.

My next job will be removing the apron and finding out why the crossfeed screw is jamming up.

Obviously I have buggered up these bolts with the hammer and punch- are new 1/2 bolts with the same shoulder profile available? And if so, from where? Honestly I would prefer torx head bolts if I had a choice... Could I use 1/2" torx head bolts and a bushing to make them fit tightly in the bores?

ILerik · Mar 18, 2021

I got the apron removed and the problem was...... a mouse nest made of heavy cotton batting! The bundles of cotton were getting wedged between the gear teeth keeping them from meshing. You can see some of it in this pic.

Everything looks good inside with very little wear.

The longitudinal feed clutch center screw couldn't be tightened so that cone clutch wouldn't engage. I will check that out when I disassemble and clean everything.

I know that the half nut drive is used only for threading. Tell me more about the clutch operated, longitudinal worm type drive. Mine doesn't work (yet). Does it move the carriage faster or slower than when the half nuts are engaged?

dundeeshopnut · Mar 18, 2021

Your exact answer is on the threading chart/ name plate.

ILerik · Mar 21, 2021

dundeeshopnut said:
Your exact answer is on the threading chart/ name plate.

Ok thanks- so the chart says feed rate is 4X what is in the chart- so if the gearbox is set to feed 10 threads (rotations) per inch when the halfnuts are closed, when the halfnuts are open and the autofeed clutch knob is tightened, it will have 40 chuck revolutions per inch of carriage travel? Correct?

Anyone know where I can find replacement bolts for the ones I destroyed when taking the apron off?

johnoder · Mar 21, 2021

Anyone know where I can find replacement bolts for the ones I destroyed when taking the apron off?

If they would accept modern 1/2-13 (or whatever) you could use socket head cap screws and assume you had to reduce head dia some and maybe even make them the right length

These sure won't look period, but certainly will hold up the apron

Its a real good plan assume you have to make stuff to suit what is there - and generally forget about "finding" stuff that is a "replacement". Just think of YOURSELF as the "replacement" provider / maker.

will have 40 chuck revolutions per inch of carriage travel? Correct?

Indeed - which is the old timey way of expressing feeds - TURNS PER INCH

The RECIPROCAL of the 40 is the modern way to express feeds - .025 per rev

ILerik · Mar 22, 2021

Thanks John- it is all starting to sink in.

Update- the apron is back on (I used some standard sized 1/2" bolts to hold it together for now). I fired it up and the power crossfeed and power feed clutches are working well so now I am ready to learn to cut with it!

Old Hendey lathe crossfeed help needed- any stubborn bolt removal tips?

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