Sanford SG-48 surface grinder survey

I am a Sanford SG-48 owner and a historian and I would like to better document the variations in this neat little surface grinder. I have been collecting photos off the web for awhile and would like to ask your help with some information about each machine. If you could send me the following information, either in a PM or directly to my email: dthompson4389 (at) wowway.com that would be great.

Hopefully I can come up with an illustrated timeline which I will make available. Any suggestions are appreciated. Dennis


Serial Number.
Original purchase date if known.
What state/city did you find it?
Motor information (HP, amps, rpm, manufacturer).
Elevation leadscrew:
a. External leadscrew, open gears and screw.
b. External leadscrew, closed gears, covered screw.
c. Internal leadscrew.
Elevation dial: pointer or vernier?
Wheel guard:
a. Plain.
b. Tab with mounting hole on the right (for the wet nozzle, I guess).
Belt drive: (flat or V, size if known).
A rear/side photo showing the motor mount (I have identified 4 types so far).
Spindle lubrication: flip cap oiler, large reservoir, none.
Anyone have any options (photos needed):
a. Dust extraction adapter on wheel guard.
b. Cutter grinding attachment.
c. Wet grinding system/shield.
d. 3 phase motor.
Power supply in base for the magnetic chuck:
a. Vacuum tube.
b. Solid state.
I need better photos of the power supplies and a schematic for the vacuum tube version if anyone has drawn one up.
If you have inspected the spindle bearings, what bearing number?
Anyone own the Harvey (Butterfly) re-badged version?

You should do a search of the PM archives, as there are several threads about Sanford Surface Grinders.

The ultimate mystery is "Who has the Sanford drawings?" Or, did they just get tossed in a dumpster?

JRR

I've been through the threads on a number of forums and that has been the source of most of my photos. But most don't mention serial numbers and such, and those are things I would like to tie together. I will be doing some research in the NJ libraries, perhaps something will turn up.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

I have recently purchased an MG 618 (I think) model. It does not have the original motor and is in need of complete overhaul. But I would be happy to get you any info I have on mine if it will help. I'm also close to you if that makes a difference.

Best Regards,
Bob

I have a basic Sanford Surface Grinder. Unfortunately, the nameplate on the front of the base casting was missing when I got the surface grinder. The bed of the grinder is about 4" x 18 1/2" and has what appear to be factory-original sheet metal shields to catch grit and sparks.

The X travel is 8" & the Y travel is 4"

Vertical travel looks to be somewhere also around 4".

The motor is mounted in a "cradle" type casting with "SG 10" on the casting, GE, 110/115 volt single phase, 1/6 HP, 3450 rpm and appears original.

The spindle must have sealed ball bearings as there is no provision for lubing them. There are a number of Gits oil hole covers on the sliding parts, but no oil holes on things like the table feed pinion shaft or cross feed screw.

The vertical feed screw is in the open above the spindle housing, but there is a screw guard (flanged piece of steel tubing) on top of the vertical guide frame that the spindle assembly slides in.

There are fixed dials on the cross feed and vertical feed, with the rims of the handwheels being stamped with the graduations and numbers. Semi-adjustable pointers made of sheetmetal are fitted.

The surface grinder had an electromagnetic chuck, but it was long gone when I got this surface grinder. The power supply was contained within the base casting, with no vent openings, so this must have been the later design of power supply.

The original paint appears to be on the bulk of the grinder- a light gray. The wheel guard and sheet metal shields on the bed are a medium green. I saw a Sanford surface grinder in another small tool and die shop, and it also had that same color scheme, gray and green.

Lumped in with the surface grinder were an oversized "Eclipse" permanent magnet chuck, and a smaller Brown and Sharpe "block" type magnetic chuck about 2 1/2" x 5", but quite tall. The previous owner (also long gone when I got the grinder) had bolted a "Heinrich" cam action drill press vise to the bed of the grinder. I removed the Heinrich vise and mounted the Brown & Sharpe magnetic chuck. It's kind of weak, and not a fine pole chuck, but with some ground toolbits laid on it to chock the work, I get by.

The wheel guard was meant for dry grinding and has a single machine screw at the top to remove the front plate. No other identifying marks, but I'd seen a few other Sanford surface grinders to know that this one is also a Sanford.

It's a well built little machine, borderline small for the work I want to do, and seemingly too small for resharpening end mill cutters. The price was right (100 bucks, including the vise and Eclipse magnetic chuck), so I jumped on it.


I've always been curious about Sanford. It seems like they made a lot of the little surface grinders as they turn up fairly often. They were in New Jersey, not exactly the machine tool building capital (albeit G & E once was in Newark). I would imagine Sanford was a small operation, buying their castings and probably having a relatively small plant on the order of a large garage. I imagine they were a family owned business which ceased to exist when the participants aged out or the neighborhood around them changed to where they could no longer afford to remain in that location. Happens often enough with smaller shops, the owners get older, the lease is up for renewal and the landlord jacks the rent and that's the end of another small shop. I imagine it was a shop with manual machine tools, and plenty of cigar boxes full of tooling and shelves with any number of drill jigs and machining fixtures that only the owner or the foreman could identify. Seen enough of that kind of stuff come along with old machine tools where no one was left to identify what it was for. I would be interested to learn their history of Sanford.

Truth to tell, I am sitting the fence about getting a better fine-pole magnetic chuck for my Sanford grinder or trading the grinder against something a little bigger like a small Reid. It is obviously a well made and accurate little surface grinder for someone with a small shop or someone doing smaller work. As I wrote, I need to be able to regrind the end cutting lips on HSS endmill cutters, and this grinder simply seems too small. for grinding an occasional hardened steel part or shim, it is fine.

Joe Michaels said:

Truth to tell, I am sitting the fence about getting a better fine-pole magnetic chuck for my Sanford grinder or trading the grinder against something a little bigger like a small Reid. It is obviously a well made and accurate little surface grinder for someone with a small shop or someone doing smaller work. As I wrote, I need to be able to regrind the end cutting lips on HSS endmill cutters, and this grinder simply seems too small. for grinding an occasional hardened steel part or shim, it is fine.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. I have shopped around, and Shars has a 4" x 7" permanent magnet, fine pole chuck for $230. It is also the lowest one I have found, less than 2" high if their dimensions are correct.

shars.com - Fine Pole Permanent Magnetic Chuck 4x7quot

The old Sanford shop in Roselle seems to be gone. When I Google 300 Cox St, a fairly new building shows up at 298 Cox St. Dennis

To update, I have spent the morning on the New Jersey public records sites and I purchased the short form status report from the Department of the Treasury. To illustrate how tricky this can be, there is no mention of the company in the state records. I started searching for similar names and found the state of New Jersey actually misspelled the name on their official listings!

The Sanford Manufacturing Corp was voided by the state in 1993 for failure to pay taxes. I am trying to locate their last listed agent, M. Michael Meadow, who was possibly just a lawyer and not directly connected with the company. There is a different company at his business address in Rahway, they never heard of him. I haven't located him anywhere else yet, although I have the Rahway library searching old directories to see if he lived in Rahway also.

It's also interesting to see they were incorporated in 1951, when their own letterhead states 1941.

Harvey, the company famous for their Butterfly die filers, also sold a re-badged version of the complete Sanford line, called "Butterfly" also. Their version of the SG-48 has some obvious cosmetic differences (from a company parts catalog that happens to show the grinder also). I haven't found a photo of an actual Butterfly SG-48, but have come across the larger MG and LG versions, all the way up to an 10x16, the largest Sanford built.

Dennis

For all who may not have seen this, I have found the following link helpful for my research on the MG 618:

Sanford

It includes links to manuals, brochures, schematics, and price quotes for SGs and MGs and LGs.

Best Regards,
Bob

Hi Dennis,

I have the SG model, packed away awaiting restoration. I think it is missing the motor, mag. chuck and parts from Y axis feed screw assy (if I remember correctly). I'll try to drag out that container and unpack it for some pictures and other details for you in two weeks (weekend after Easter). I'll be very interested to follow your research. I'm interested to hear about the Shars mag. chuck, so thanks for that info ! I look forward to getting mine up and running, but it's low on the priority list. I'm only expecting to need it for very small parts, and I have limited space, so I'm hoping that if I can get it to perform well that it will be ideal for my shop.

Looking forward to your info, StarkFan. rjs44032, did you get the MG 618 from HGR? I remember one sold right before you posted about getting yours and you are local. They have a Harvey Butterfly right now, I'm not sure if the larger Butterflies were also made by Sanford, although they seem pretty close.

Response has been pretty good so far. I have at least partial information on 2 dozen SG's for my database. The lowest serial number I have located is in the low 400 range from the first year or two of production. I have the first sales brochure introducing the SG model, it is great! And... the specs and some castings are different than the normal SG, I don't know if they actually sold them that way. I have 4 more early brochures sent from WorldCat on inter-library loan, I'll pick them up tomorrow. One is from 1945, it will be interesting to see if the specs were changed by then.

I have located the last CEO of Sanford and have his phone number but haven't made a cold call to him yet.

The Y axis leadscrew parts are something that can be fabricated, I can help with measurements if you need any.

JTS Machinery (which is local to me), has the lowest price on a 4x7 ceramic magnet chuck for only $132, part number PMC-047. And every Tuesday is 10% off, so only $118 for the 4x7. It isn't a fine pole type, but the poles are pretty thin anyway. It is in their 50 page sale flier and so it may not appear on their web site. Their sales flier is well worth calling and getting, lots of good stuff.

I've been thinking about getting one also, although my Brown and Sharpe is fine for mow. The B&S were an option and my grinder appears to have been ordered that way, as it does not have all the holes for the electric chuck in the base.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,
Thanks for the info on the JTS mag. chuck.
I'll let you know if I need measurements for anything on the Y axis leadscrew. I should be able to evaluate that further when I pull it out in a little over a week for the info you're collecting and some photographs.
I suspect that Sanford's last CEO might be quite surprised, and happy, to hear from you. I think you're also likely to get some great information from him as well, so good luck, and let us all know how that goes !

Dennis,

No. I bought mine from a guy in Akron. I paid $150 for it so I didn't think I could find a better price even at HGR.


Best Regards,
Bob

Dennis,

I have a Sanford SG-47 (not 48), serial #1117. Could it be related to the SG-48 you are interested in? I will send you an email with more details.

Bob

Sanford SG Surface Grinder pictures

Hi Dennis,

I got a few minutes to pull out my 'wreck' and take some photos today.

I've posted them at:

Sanford Surface Grinder Photos by StarkFan | Photobucket

Let me know if that link doesn't work for some reason. If there are any details that aren't clear from the pictures, just let me know.

- I have no idea of the original purchase date. I purchased 'as is' about a year ago for $50, in Burlington Vt.
- I know that you'll enjoy the power supply details in these photos.

StarkFan said:

Hi Dennis,

I got a few minutes to pull out my 'wreck' and take some photos today.

Click to expand...

WOO HOO!!!

StarkFan, you have the lowest serial number I have recorded, and your grinder is in the original, as-first-advertised configuration! Ever since I got a copy of the introductory Sanford advertisement last week, I have been wondering if they actually produced them to those specs, or if the early production models were the same as later versions.

So, you have the original version of the reciprocating table, with the extra raised rib running to the left of the chuck mount. You have the original style handwheels without the counterweights. If you have the front cover of the wheel guard, it should be plain, without the raised "Sanford" of the later guards (I have found one other machine with that wheel guard). Now, you need to measure the left to right travel of the table. It should only be 6 1/2" instead of the 8" on the later machines. Also, measure the length of the table and the rack underneath if you could.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you thought some parts of the Y axis feed were missing, they appear to all be there. Is the motor mount missing?

Thanks!!! Dennis

Bob Farr said:

Dennis,

I have a Sanford SG-47 (not 48), serial #1117. Could it be related to the SG-48 you are interested in? I will send you an email with more details.

Bob

Click to expand...

Bob, thanks for all the detailed photos you sent. To clear up the name plate:

The first model of the Sanford was simply called the SG, nothing more. When they redesigned the elevation mechanism, which did away with the elevation screw sticking up in the air, it was then called the SG2. At some later date, it was changed to the SG-48, which indicated the table travel (4" x 8"), and that type of model name is commonplace with many surface grinder manufacturers.

The SG and SG2 models do not list model names on the name plate, it is stamped only with the serial number. The SG-48 machines have a stamped "48", then a conventional serial number.

Here is my take on the serial numbers, which I hope to confirm with Sanford someday, but when you list them all in a database it becomes clear. Three digit numbers are just the machine's serial number. By 1946 the first two digits indicate the year, the last 4 numbers are the machine number. Beginning in 1950, they added a leading "1", ignore this to find the year. Your machine was made in 1947, and is machine number 1117. My machine is 1551907, which is 1955, machine number 1907.

The machine number is continuous from the first machine, it does not 'reset' every year. Based on the serial numbers I have so far, I'm extrapolating they made less than 4000 SG grinders.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,
Glad to hear that all that is helpful ! I seem to have a knack for finding really old machines ;-)

If you have a photo of the front guard for the wheel guard, let me know -if it didn't show up in the pictures I posted, then I don't have it, but would be interested in perhaps making one, or hunting for an original.

If I can't make measurements later this afternoon, then I should be able to get to all that sometime next weekend.

I didn't look too closely, but I think there is a bushing missing in the casting for the spindle of the leftmost handle/spindle, so that would be for the X axis (left to right table motion). If that's all there is missing I can certainly make up an oilite bushing for it.

I didn't notice any perceptible slop in the spindle, so it will eventually be interesting to see if those bearings are still OK. Overall, it looks quite resurrectable.

StarkFan, I was looking over your photos again. I had noticed earlier that the motor is a non-stock replacement. It is the correct rpm so it should perform just fine. It is a larger horsepower than Sanford ever used (they went from 1/8 HP to 1/6 and then 1/4). Your early machine would have had a 1/8 HP. I thought you did not have a motor mount. While it is true you don't have any of the 4 types Sanford offered, you do have a homemade version that I assume fits to that Westinghouse motor if it is a face-mount. It is already assembled on the column.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,
I tried replying a little while ago, but it doesn't look like it 'took'. I dragged everything out again this evening and
I've added photos to my Photobucket album that show the table with a tape measure. It looks like the rack is 8", the table is 17.25" and the ways are 12.5" (unless I just mis-remembered from half an hour ago). Sounds like you were expecting the rack to be 6.5" ? Any other photos or measurements needed ?

Thanks, StarkFan,

Your rack is longer than expected, but still shorter than the 'normal' ones, which are 8 7/8" long. Your table is 1 3/4" shorter than the others, which are 19" long. The ways are the same. In addition, the rack mounting area under your table is different and has a cast-in thick boss with the groove for the rack while the later racks are just mounted in a milled groove. So your rack appears to be mounted almost flush.

If you assemble the rack on the machine, it should have 6 1/2" of travel, though, not 8".

Dennis