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Collet adapter confusion

grantmail76

Plastic
Joined
Jun 25, 2012
Location
Neosho, MO USA
I have a Steptoe No. 0 Horizontal milling machine with a B&S 9 taper spindle. Since both of my lathes (13" South Bend and a South Bend 10k) have MT3 spindles, I'd like to be able to use MT3 collets in the Steptoe for end milling. I can buy a B&S 9 to MT3 adapter from Grand Tool in NJ; however, I'm not sure whether this will work properly, or if I need to just pony up and buy B&S collets. My question is, how do you lock the MT3 collet into the B&S 9 to MT3 adapter? The drawbar would hold the adapter in, but I would think that I'd end up losing the end mill and collet once a side load was added while milling (similar to what happens in a drill press when people try use it as a mill). Am I missing something here? Is there a way that I'm not seeing to physically attach the MT3 into the B&S 9?
 
I have a Steptoe No. 0 Horizontal milling machine with a B&S 9 taper spindle. Since both of my lathes (13" South Bend and a South Bend 10k) have MT3 spindles, I'd like to be able to use MT3 collets in the Steptoe for end milling. I can buy a B&S 9 to MT3 adapter from Grand Tool in NJ; however, I'm not sure whether this will work properly, or if I need to just pony up and buy B&S collets. My question is, how do you lock the MT3 collet into the B&S 9 to MT3 adapter? The drawbar would hold the adapter in, but I would think that I'd end up losing the end mill and collet once a side load was added while milling (similar to what happens in a drill press when people try use it as a mill). Am I missing something here? Is there a way that I'm not seeing to physically attach the MT3 into the B&S 9?

MT3 exist with drawbar-capable shanks, of course. One needs a #9 B&S 'host' adapter that is a plain-tailed sleeve so as to apply a drawbar directly and only to the MT 'guest'. The overall rig can end up akin to drinking Dutch pea soup through a dirty sock when time comes to change-it-out.

I limit meself to the tang-style MT adapters instead. Provides a seldom-used 'capability' to mount a Jacobs drill chuck that happens to be on a MT 3 or MT 2 - more for when I actually NEED long stick-out to get down inside a box-shape or such than otherwise.

Then try hard to just DON'T use such.

For milling? What you want for easily-hung-in-the-taper #9 B&S milling isn't really even #9 B&S collets, let alone adapted MT.

More better to utilize side-lock milling cutter HOLDERS wherever possible, and then... mount a modern ER system or TG system on a shop fabbed (or modified) #9 tail. Those do taps and drills really well, too.

Re-use of MT goods off other machines just comes at too high an operating and nuisance cost to recover the purchase price of better - and long-term DURABLE - alternatives that have flooded the mass (CNC) market and gone serious affordable to all-comers as a byproduct of that.

Most especially as either of ER or TG have bitchin' great grip from a rather modest number of collet sizes, given their wide(er) effective 'collapse' ranges. And one can afford to keep spares on-hand.

Both being advantages neither MT collets nor B&S collets had on their best days, let alone with current scarce - and still declining - count of stocking sources.

Fit for decent grip with either has to be with in a mere FEW thousandths, not a half (TG) or full (ER) millimeter (right close to forty-thou in real measurements, a 'millimeter' is IIRC?).

Bill
 
Those are very valid points. I'd considered building either an ER32 or ER40 setup for the 13" anyway. There's no real reason I couldn't make another for the B&S taper too.
 
Those are very valid points. I'd considered building either an ER32 or ER40 setup for the 13" anyway. There's no real reason I couldn't make another for the B&S taper too.

I picked ER 40 and ER 20 - they meet/overlap in the middle. ER 32 might be a better choice if you plan to USE it all that much. With 5C and Jacobs 900 RubberFlex on the lathe, I mostly don't.

Planning to add TG 75 'soon' and thereafter pretty much no longer mess with Jacob's drill chucks on anything but the Walker-Turner DP. Or powered hand tools.

However ..keeping ER and TG uber-uber clean, also properly torqued is not to be neglected. Neither of those is exactly a 'free lunch'.

The 'point' after all, is not to be stopping every few minutes to go cranking nose-nuts or pounding on drawbars.

Rather to be swapping an entire pre-configured NMTB/CAT/BT /// ER/TG 'holder' with commonly-used tooling where you left it last.

Manual version of a magazine-fed CNC with powered toolchanger.

Closest I have so far?

PDQ-Marlin 'master collet' & system.

There are several others of that ilk out there.

Bill
 
There also exist B& S 9 to 3C adapters. I have one for the dividing head. That would allow use of shanks up to 1/2", and might be a help, if you can find one. I don't recall where I got mine, might have been from someone here.
 
There also exist B& S 9 to 3C adapters.

No gain in grip. Modest gain - very - in that one can still get 3C in finer granularity, diameter-wise, than is now common with MT or B&S collets.

Even so, not even half a match to ER or TG for either grip or range, let alone cost of collets to COVER a given range.

May not matter much where endmills are concerned and a set of side-lock holders in 1/8" incremental steps is fine.

Matters a lot more if one needs to drill on the mill, and cover Metric, Inch, number, and letter drills w/o knowing in advance WHICH might be needed.


Bill
 
I have a Steptoe No. 0 Horizontal milling machine with a B&S 9 taper spindle. Since both of my lathes (13" South Bend and a South Bend 10k) have MT3 spindles, I'd like to be able to use MT3 collets in the Steptoe for end milling. I can buy a B&S 9 to MT3 adapter from Grand Tool in NJ; however, I'm not sure whether this will work properly, or if I need to just pony up and buy B&S collets. My question is, how do you lock the MT3 collet into the B&S 9 to MT3 adapter? The drawbar would hold the adapter in, but I would think that I'd end up losing the end mill and collet once a side load was added while milling (similar to what happens in a drill press when people try use it as a mill). Am I missing something here? Is there a way that I'm not seeing to physically attach the MT3 into the B&S 9?

As long as the tangs are in good condition, oil free, friction holds them in just fine. I only had one come loose when I turned the mill on, so since then I use a plastic mallet to tap them a bit better then the slide/slam action I always used before.
 
I have a B&S 9 to ZZ collet adapter that works well, the collets are affordable and go to 1". I no longer have anything to use it on if you would be interested in it with a half inch collet.
 
Using tanged taper tooling to hold end mills is foolish.

Yes oldtimers did it, they knew no better. Then they learned..

Under milling sideforces... taper loosens.. helix of milling cutter, quickly draws endmill down into work/table/vise.

Tanged tooling works great for what it was designed for, drilling and other operations, that put mostly axial force on taper.

Sure a homeshop guy might get lucky, and not have one fall/get pulled out.. But if your making money, spoiling a customers $$$$ part, because YOU used wrong toolholding.. Puts you out of business fast.

Use either a nose clamping collet holder ER/TG, or make endmill holders to fit taper.

R8/Morse/B&S taper collets, are among the worst toolholding ever made. Use end mill holders for endmills..
That is why tanged, endmill holding tooling, was fairly quickly replaced by drawbar style
 
My BS9 to 3C is NOT TANGED.

It has a drawbar thread, The 3C is held by screwing it into female threads in the adapter. The business end of the adapter is a eparate piece that fits closely in the adapter, and turns the collet by the pin. It has knurling plus a hex for a wrench.

Not entirely sure how you would do that with an MT, they typically are not slotted for a pin. I don't much like MT collets, but older mills often use them if not B&S.

Never bothered to see if a 5C would fit inside a BS9, but I suspect not. Some form of ER should.
 
I have a B&S 9 to ZZ collet adapter that works well, the collets are affordable and go to 1". I no longer have anything to use it on if you would be interested in it with a half inch collet.
Rick,
I was actually looking into building ER40 adapters that would mount to a face plate, but if the price is right, I'd be interested.
 








 
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