A scarce, if not rare, Starrett item

Because it was bought buy a wood worker, it looks like you all missed the very scarce and likely rare Starrett protractor shown below. Take a look:



It is a Starrett # 12 1/2 protractor. I have only seen it listed in catalogs 13 thru 16 and in catalog 13 it did not have a picture. With a square grooved rule only 5/8ths inches wide and 9 inches long, it certainly is different from the other Starrett protractors.

But, the major distinction is the short, 5 inch base!

I don't know of many. Anyone else have one? If so, is the rule squared grooved and is the acorn nut nickeled brass?

This tool with its features is certainly a strong anomaly in terms of dating Starrett items and this one went way too cheap! I probably should have bid, but I already have two. And you know what they say - one is an interest, two is a collection and three or more is an obsession!

So, how many of you know what a Starrett #32 center head is?

AntiqueMac,

If you are not already a member of the OLDTOOLS mailing list, the Midwest Tool Collectors Assoc, the Early American Industries Assoc. and C.R.A.F.T.S.-NJ (Collectors of Rare and Familiar Tools Society of NJ) then you ought to be!

You obviously have a severe case of Old Tools Disease!

BTW: It's a beauty!

John Ruth

This VERY RARE tool has been covered here before.... see...

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/11/843.html#000000

....... and even that some of you may have read this thread it didn't sink in or none of you saw this ebay sale because it went for about $ 300. cheaper than it should have...... so somebody got a great deal!!!!!!!....... needless to say I missed it other wise it would have been much higher..... I think there are only about 6 examples known.

John.... fear not.... AntiqueMac is a well known member of the above groups..... as I recall we even all had dinner with CRAFTS Herb Keene on night years back......

That's a neat tool, Mac!
I've got a couple I like...don't know if these are "rare", just haven't seen a lot of them. Both work VERY smoothly.



Starrett #10



Starrett #16

AntiqueMac--

I have a Starret protractor identical to the one you pictured. Yours is better shape, though. Heck, I still use mine. Maybe better not anymore.

As to the visible acorn nut in your photo, mine looks identical. That and the other lock knob on mine are steel, unplated near as I can tell.

The rule is square grooved, 9 inches long.

And yes, it is the smaller 5 inch model, not the 7 inch frame.

And, no, I had no idea it was a collectible.

P.S.

While we are on the subject of protractors, what about a Brown and Sharpe no. 496, in original fitted felt lined case? Any rarity to another of my "users"?

No scale on that one, just a straight edge about 12 inches long. Nearly the identical straight edge cross sectional dimensions to the Starret scale, and square grooved, too. Somewhat interchangable. Makes me wonder which came first, the chicken or the egg.......

Sorry, no photos.

John,

I used to be ever present in the major old tool events and have been on the OldTools list since Digest 10 eons ago. Remember the party when we broke over 100 Digests?

You are right about the Old Tool Disease! My SWMBO used to tell folks that we drove from the Mid-Atlantic to Nashua, NH for dinner on a Thursday night because we'd drive back home (800+miles round trip) by noon on Friday. I guess she never understood that I was at the parking lot tailgate sails at 4AM and done by 9:30AM!

And, when I moved south, the household items filled a 52 foot moving van. But, my hand tools, not machinery filled a 26 foot International floor to ceiling. The truck was rated for 14,000 pounds of cargo. I weighed in at 19,200 pounds!

But, that was nothing compared to Rivett's tool move to KC. He so overloaded his truck, he broke the drive shaft going up a hill! Guess I'm not the only old tool diseased one here!

Jeff - Great tools. Very collectible. Not rare and not common, they usually do well on eBay. I'd 'guess' yours date from the late 20's to the 40's. What's your guess Rivett?

Bronto48, Your no. 12 1/2 would make perhaps 6 that Rivett and I know about. You are the first to actually use theirs that I know about. Perhaps you or some one else can conjecture on why the short 5 inch base was needed. And then, because everything else about the casting and protractor wheel is about the same size as the No. 12, why the small rule? Why the extra rule production cost when they might have used a standard rule?

Your B&S 496 is a cool item. The square groove would is a real surprise. I have the similar (a 496 sans "acute angle attachment"), but is "U" grooved. How about a picture - please???

You mentioned the chicken and the egg. But, the only thing I've wondered about the chicken and the egg is 'who was the first bloke that decided to eat something that came out of that animals butt?'

And did you know that in Laytonville, MD. Phil Gregory lives? A great and fun auctioneer working at the Howard County Fair Grounds! I got a lot of my tools there from him and Allen Hill auctioneers! You're lucky! Laytonsville is centered in old tool heaven!!

Hey Bronto48,

I just looked in a B&S 1904 catalog and saw a 'cut' of your 496. It says it was patented in 1890, which may explain the square groove!

Then, your #496 with a 12 inch blade in a Morocco case cost $10.50! That would be $227.00 in todays money!!!!!!!!!

I bet is is scarce because of the cost!!

Antique--

B&S #496--good grief, another possible rarity?? Heck that comment/question of mine was only half serious.

Your other comments are interesting. I do not know Phil Gregory. Coincidentally, the Howard county fair is in progress this week. Maybe I will take a trip over there. Also, I had no idea that Laytonsville environs was a hot area for old tools/collectors. I am just a home shop machinist, not a tool collector. I just happen to have a few old tools which I use in my shop. Never gave any thought to their collector interest.

If your B&S protractor is "U" groove, that makes me suspicious of my eyesight. I will need to confirm my earlier report.

Will work on getting some photos. Might be a while as I will be out of town for a while later this week.

Now you have me wondering about a few other items in my tool box. Will have to do an inventory and post results.

BTW these items were discarded decades ago from the machine shop where I worked as an apprentice when in college in the late 60's to early 70's.

The shop itself was a virtual working museum as it had a "collection" of former overhead countershaft driven machine tools still in daily use. We had a camelback drill with a no. 4 or 5 MT spindle, LARGE shaper, and 4 foot band saw. The common wisecrack from another machinist there was that "all the machines were old enough to have voted for Lincoln, the first time he ran!" No, I do not remember anymore the details as to makes, etc. Sorry.

I recall that the old boss occasionally mentioned the steam engine that formerly drove all the shop machinery in the "old shop" that formerly existed nearby. When the new building was constructed about 1948, they moved all the old machines to the new location and converted to individual electric drives--flat belt. I am well familiar with how to splice a flat belt using the belt hook installer.

One feature of the early B & S protractors are they had wing nuts as opposed to knurled knobs........ auctions were held at the fairgrounds when there was not a county fair going on so this week might not be the best time..... also as with any area that has changed so much..... I think there used to be an old blacksmith's shop right on the main southwest conner in Olney, Md...... remember that anyone?..... of course it had been converted to service those new fangled driving machines by the 1960's (probably 30 years earlier than that) but still had the old sign up.

BUMP!

It has now been over 3 years and I have not seen or heard of another of these rare(?) short base Starrett protractors surfacing. See the original, first post here.

Please, has anyone seen another?

Thanks.

So happy to have finally found one of these. It was advertised as a 12", so I was pleasantly surprised when it arrived with its original 9" rule.

Nice buy! I assume this was the one on eBay the other day? I thought the price was reasonable, I was even tempted but already have two of them. It did like it had the correct rule which is great. If it is the same, is the main acorn nut made of brass? If so that would be very early.

Another I have seen on these which might by why so few survive is they often have a hairline crack in the frame at the top tightening screw. How is yours?

Anyway, great find and I agree these are rare, I know of a bunch but certainly not common.

Shame you don’t live closer.... we would compare these over a drink...

It was ebay, but I got real lucky. It was a BIN combined with another combo sq, for a fraction of what the other went for. I haven't cleaned it yet, so not sure if acorn is brass or steel. I only lightly clean. No cracks or damage. The other one on ebay had a chunk missing by top screw, and the acorn post appeared to have a hairline (although the seller claimed it didn't).

Fantastic! Even better. I didn’t look that close, I guess I should if I think about buying something.