Seneca Falls "Star" Lathe help

wilsonsk · Nov 14, 2017

Hi, New to this forum and a casual user of machine tools at best.

I recently got an old Seneca Falls "Star" lathe, appears to be a "10 Inch "Star" Screw-Cutting Engine Lathe" per the No. 39 Star Catalog.

I have a few question:

What was the year of manufacture? The serial number is 3402

What is the tail stock taper? The No. 39 catalog says Morse #2, but a Morse #2 is very loose and it is not hitting the screw, the chuck the hits the tailpiece. I have several centers that came with the lathe that fit perfectly, they measure about .760" at the widest part that engages the tailpiece, the Morse #2 measures around .700". Morse #2 is too small, Morse #3 is too big, I would like to be able to put a chuck in the tailpiece. Jarno #6 maybe?

What is the likelihood of finding a crossfeed gear for the apron? It is the gear that engages the gear on the crossfeed screw. It has been gone for some time, and I found some notes in a box of parts that referenced a few things regarding the lathe, and underlined were the words, "FIND NEW CROSSFEED GEAR", that note could have been written 40 years ago.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I need to hang the pulleys, mount a motor and make a belt and I will be running.

Thanks!

Steve

wilsonsk · Nov 14, 2017

And it may seem pretty rudimentary, but the far right knob does not appear to do anything, it is slotted, but I can't see anything moving from the backside.

projectnut · Nov 14, 2017

It's quite possible your tailstock has a Jarno taper. Depending on the date of manufacture the Star lathes could be ordered with either a #2 Morse or Jarno taper. Given the style of your machine it was probably sold long before catalog #39 came out. Earlier machines (although they had the same 10"+ throw) were sold as 9" machines. I would guess your machine to be built in the late 1890's to about 1905. As far as I know there is no serial number registry to confirm date of manufacture.

Take a look at some of the earlier catalogs available from Vintage Machinery.org:

Seneca Falls Manufacturing Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org

I have a Star #20 machine similar to the one in the picture you posted. The date of manufacture was about 1916. I only know this because the machine has been in the family well over 60 years. It was used by my wife's grandfather in a vending machine prototyping shop for nearly forty years. When he retired it was given to him as a retirement present.

The good news is that there are occasionally parts available on eBay. If you do some patent research you may be able to find information on the missing gear. The bad news is about the only prints available are from the patent office or another owner. The Seneca Falls Machine Co. declared the machines obsolete in 1942 and as such destroyed all remaining spare parts and prints.

wilsonsk · Nov 14, 2017

Wow, thanks for the link, very interesting, it almost looks like the head could be older, the tailpiece doesn't really match the tailpiece in the catalog that is on the 9", but the head definitely has the gear chart on the bearing leg, and mine doesn't have a cover for the gear sets, which I thought was just missing. Mine also doesn't have the spring clips to hold the gears on. I'll scour ebay for a crossfeed gear, any idea if it is the same across multiple models?

jim rozen · Nov 14, 2017

The T-handled knob on the right allows you to change between power crossfeed and longitudinal feed. If you are missing the
gear that drives the crossfeed your best bet is to make one. I could probably provide dimensions as long as your machine
and mine are similar vintage. Seneca Falls did change things along the way.

Be very careful as this lathe has no lockout between the half nuts (threading) and the longitudinal feed. If you accidently
close the half nuts while the feed is engaged (under power) this is the same thing as putting a transmission in two gears at the
same time. It will lock the lead screw hard and then something will give in the geartrain. Usually that something is the
left hand leadscrew bracket. Many of these lathes show repairs in this area.

Your machine has the compound, mine does not. Also my machine has a non-standard tailstock ram taper as well, not sure
if Jarno or possibly proprietary.

Riderusty · Nov 15, 2017

My 9" S/F Star lathe has Jarno tapers on both ends-#8 on the headstock and I believe #3 on the tailstock.

Tom B.

wilsonsk · Nov 15, 2017

Thanks!.

I think by my measurements, my tail stock would be a Jarno #6?

I was looking closer, I see now what the right hand knob does, I had to look behind the apron, it had no visible effect because of the missing gear. Is the missing gear a double? Does it prevent my longitudinal feed from working?

My half nuts are not engaging well either, the bottom one barely moves, I need to take the apron off and clean it up, hopefully I don't find any bad surprises. I have a hard time determining if the longitudinal feed works or not, I don't have power yet so I am turning the chuck by hand. I put a set of gears on somewhat randomly, I think I have a 24 on the head, the double on the stud and a 72 (I think) on the screw, I can see the carriage move with the half nuts engaged, but when I disengage that and tighten the clutch, It doesn't seem like it moves, but I may be expecting way more movement than I should, I'm not sure the difference in ratio between the half nuts and the feed.

DanLinsch · Nov 15, 2017

You might want to consider joining the Yahoo group on these at: Yahoo! Groups

Some very experienced folks weigh in there periodically....

Dan L

wilsonsk · Nov 15, 2017

I took my apron off and figured a few things out,

I had knocked the key out when I ran the screw through the bronze feed gear, got that back in, now the feed works.

I took some measurements for the missing gear, it is a single. I have to sort out my measurements and then I can start searching or making.

My half nut issue is one of the pins that cam them together is loose and would fall out if it wasn't long enough to hit the front wall. I'll have to tend to that later, I put it back together for now.

Beyond these issues it seems to be working pretty well, I am not sure what the complete compliment of QC gears is, I have quite a few, and randomly put a set together to create a pretty slow feed speed.

The newest patent date on the bed is 1896.

Next step, POWER.

wilsonsk · Nov 15, 2017

I did some math and it looks like the feed gear would be 2" OD (not pitch diameter), 30 teeth and the stud it runs on measures .560, which seems odd.

DeSelle · Nov 16, 2017

Sounds like 16DP. I imagine it's 14.5 degree PA. If someone can confirm I may be able to send you a blank you can bore out. Would also need to know the face width

projectnut · Nov 16, 2017

If you go to the Vintage Machinery website and download catalog 27B page 41 has a listing of all the gears that came with the Star #20 lathe.

wilsonsk · Nov 16, 2017

I went there and found 27, but not 27B, 27 has the gears on page 43 I see the gear I need, it is number 183, but I don't see any details on it. I can more closely examine the mating gear and determine for certain the geometry. I've done a little research and it certainly sounds like machines of this vintage would have those specs. My only concern would be the accuracy of determining the OD of the gear.

wilsonsk · Nov 17, 2017

One of my quick change gears is a 30 tooth, 2 inch diameter. It is thicker than the one I need but I can still try it to see if that's the right size.

jim rozen · Nov 18, 2017

Exactly where is the missing gear? Mounted to the apron, or on the crossfeed screw? A photo would help. I
could them remove and measure the gear in mine if that would help.

wilsonsk · Nov 18, 2017

I'm not at home right now, but it is mounted to the apron and engages the gear on the cross feed screw. #6 in the pic (conveniently found a numbered pic on the interweb).

jim rozen · Nov 19, 2017

OK will see what I can do to identify the gear in my machine.

timekiller · Nov 20, 2017

I have some gears from a SF apron. Can't remember which gears I have. May take me a few days to remember to look for them and a few more days to remember where to look. How much worse does it get?

Ray

wilsonsk · Nov 20, 2017

I appreciate all the help, right now I'm getting my power up and running, I have the SF pulley set hung, have a motor hung, and have a pulley to drive the SF pulley set with my motor, but the V-belt driven pulley hub needs to be bored, which I could do, if I had power - a bit of a catch 22 - in lieu of having power and in the interest of getting it done, I'm running the lathe by hand, pulling the belt, it is slow going, but it is boring the hub. There is a flat that has to be removed, then opened up from .875 to .940 (SF pulley shaft diameter). I also fabbed up a belt splicing a serpentine belt.

wilsonsk · Nov 21, 2017

Awesome, thanks, I'm up and running now, I spliced a serpentine belt and hand-turned the lathe to bore the ID of the driven v-belt pulley, so I have power now.

Seneca Falls "Star" Lathe help

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