SpeedRanger help

I bought a speedranger in pieces from a board member (who is now not returning emails).

I should have been more careful, as the motor was presented as the one for the P&W 3C, but it's 1/2hp single speed and not 3/4hp two speed, so shame on me.

I finally got around to putting it together, and it turns out the end cap is the wrong one - it's a smaller diameter and the circle of the four bolt holes is about 1/2" smaller.


I could machine an adaptor ring with threaded holes for the end cap to bolt to.

The motor is three phase and I know very little about AC motors, and even less (if that is possible) about 3-phase motors.

The fact that there is a commutator on the end of the armature and no brushes leads me to believe that I am missing a whole part. Does this motor need brushes?


The SpeedRanger gearbox is working, just not sure if I need to adapt another motor to it.

Any ideas of what I can do, short of cutting off the splined shaft on the end of the armature and adapting a new motor to it?

Steve

The brushes are very strange for a three-phase motor. The only three-phase motors with brushes that I have seen were 3,000 HP synchronous mill motors. Can you post a pic of the nameplate? It certainly looks like the easy way forward is to ditch the motor.

SteveM said:

I bought a speedranger in pieces from a board member (who is now not returning emails).

I should have been more careful, as the motor was presented as the one for the P&W 3C, but it's 1/2hp single speed and not 3/4hp two speed, so shame on me.

I finally got around to putting it together, and it turns out the end cap is the wrong one - it's a smaller diameter and the circle of the four bolt holes is about 1/2" smaller.
View attachment 226825

I could machine an adaptor ring with threaded holes for the end cap to bolt to.

The motor is three phase and I know very little about AC motors, and even less (if that is possible) about 3-phase motors.

The fact that there is a commutator on the end of the armature and no brushes leads me to believe that I am missing a whole part. Does this motor need brushes?
View attachment 226824

The SpeedRanger gearbox is working, just not sure if I need to adapt another motor to it.

Any ideas of what I can do, short of cutting off the splined shaft on the end of the armature and adapting a new motor to it?

Steve

Click to expand...

Needs more than "just" brushes. Their mounting, holders, "tampers" & springs.... and it IF it is 3-P, AND NOT Dee Cee altogether, it wudda been a series or "universal" wound and more likely run off but one of the phases.

Given even the end-bell doesn't fit, your "apparent" resource set sez best bet is to either try again to find another rig - or at least the motor for it - that Just Fits..

ELSE find an unrelated but useful motor, and start butchering mounts and shaft couplings.

That second path, is not, in fact at all hard to do for anyone, Machining 101 on out.

All the driven goods care about is the RPM and torque they need, plus decent alignment, not the family tree of whomever brung it to their door, or what race or tribe of electrons carried it in.

2CW

The correct end bell would have all the "stuff" for that armature. At least it would if the frame and armature belong to the same motor..... you might have pieces from 2 or 3 different motors.

No, it would not be a 3 phase motor if that is the correct armature.

The seller might be hurting for that armature, or the end bell, and be willing to swap, if they were answering emails.

As a tie breaker, not that it will do anything substantial to help:

How many wires are in the connection box?

What (if anything) are they labeled?

JST said:

No, it would not be a 3 phase motor if that is the correct armature.

Click to expand...

The thing about the armature is that the splined shaft on the end is exactly correct for the input pulleys on the speedranger.

The center section of the motor housing says 3-phase, IIRC.

Here's a pic I took of the armature before I assembled it:


The solution might be to machine everything off the armature and use the shaft to connect to another motor.

It would be too bad, though, if there is someone out there looking for the armature.

Maybe I could just machine a new splined shaft - it's not anything particularly complex.

Steve

SteveM said:

The thing about the armature is that the splined shaft on the end is exactly correct for the input pulleys on the speedranger.

The center section of the motor housing says 3-phase, IIRC.

Steve

Click to expand...

That is evidence that perhaps the center section is wrong, rather than the end bell. Perhaps both are wrong.

rklopp said:

The brushes are very strange for a three-phase motor. The only three-phase motors with brushes that I have seen were 3,000 HP synchronous mill motors. Can you post a pic of the nameplate? It certainly looks like the easy way forward is to ditch the motor.

Click to expand...

Note this is a commutator, not slip rings.

Where is the nameplate ?

rklopp said:

That is evidence that perhaps the center section is wrong, rather than the end bell. Perhaps both are wrong.

Click to expand...

The bolt circle on the center section and the gearbox end are the same, and they fit together (although that doesn't mean they AREN'T mismatched).

The end bell bolt circle doesn't match either the center section or the gearbox end, so it definitely doesn't belong to either part.

I will get the info off the nameplate when I get home.

Steve

Probably not repulsion start, induction run.

From 20 feet away it looks like an armature from a dc motor.

Yes, looks like a DC armature.

So, how many wires come out of he stator?

That should help decide whether the armature belongs with the stator part.

The stator has three wires, all the same color. The windings looks new, so they could be whatever the guy rewinding it decided to make it.

Attached is the plate off the motor.



Clearly shows 3 phase, although it shows dual voltage, and I'd think you'd need more than 3 wires if you were 3 phase AND dual voltage.

Steve

SteveM said:

The stator has three wires, all the same color. The windings looks new, so they could be whatever the guy rewinding it decided to make it.

Attached is the plate off the motor.

View attachment 226871

Click to expand...

Much akin to a dead possum road-kilt by an indifferent Peterbilt, it is not worth any more "detective" work nor the effort of teams of forensic pathologists pondering over the corpse by remote CCTV.. AKA "PM".

Knowing how it is FUBAR or how it BECAME FUBAR will not alter that fact that it IS FUBAR.

See if it can be confirmed by other sources (manual? old sales brochure? another owner?) that 1/2 HP & 1725 RPM are what the driven unit expected from its OEM motor. Or safely ASSUME so.

Find one that is a bolt-on fit. Or do the shaft & mounting machine work to make one fit.

It is only a vanilla half-horse 1725 RPM 3-P motor, you HAVE the spliney-stuff in-hand, and if it doesn't work, you can fix that, too.

OK, that definitely says that the thing was rewound at some point, and is NOT a DC motor stator.

The "motor" is composed of parts from 3 motors, none of which are compatible. The seller either did not know, or threw parts in a box to make it look complete. If no comm from seller, scrap it and get another. The shaft may be needed, since the spline will not be found on a replacement motor.

Actually, scrap the DC armature and bad end bell, saving the shaft. You may want the other parts, because the thing mounts ny the ears on the stator housing, which looks original

The original was apparently a 2 speed according to Tony's site, although yours was not, and was integral, so you are somewhat escrewed as far as easily finding anything else to work with it. There are pics on the second page here, for those not knowing what he has....

Pratt & Whitney 3C Precision Bench Miller

You DO have some chance....depending on your tolerance for rebuilding..... The rotors of induction motors, while there are 4 or 5 different design types, are somewhat interchangeable. So if you cannot get the missing parts from the seller, it may be possible to find a motor with a rotor size that works, to which you can attach the stub of the spline shaft, and get going with a fabricated end bell.

Yes, that's a big hassle, but having the variable speed box, it might be worth doing some such kludge.

Or. make the end bell, but with a place for a pulley drive from the replacement motor, That may be the easiest way to get it working, if you can fit a pulley on... That would involve stripping the stuff off the DC armature and putting the pulley on the bare shaft. Your fabricated end bell needs a slot for the belt

No easy options if the seller is incommunicado.

JST said:

scrap the DC armature and bad end bell, saving the shaft. You may want the other parts, because the thing mounts ny the ears on the stator housing, which looks original

Click to expand...

Now we have a plan. "Easy" enough option.

1/2 HP 2-speed is hard to find?

Just grab a 3/4 HP to 1 1/2 HP AC OR DC and use a VFD OR DC Drive to make it continuously variable.

The extra HP is so you can still make chips easily when the variable speed is running in the least favourable portion of its range.

Use the limit settings in VFD OR DC Drive to set max power so you don't overload the shaft when the motor and drive are in their best and most powerful range.

If the old rotor doesn't cleanly press right off that precious splined shaft? Saw slit the rotor, Drive wedges, Try again. None of them were grown in-place from rotor eggs.

Here's how someone jurryrigged a Master Gearmotor that I've got. It's on my project list to make it a whole lot nicer and machine an adapter plate so I can attach a C-face motor behind it with a VFD.

yeah, that's the "belt slot" idea I mentioned.... They ut it in a different place, which is OK as long as you never fond the missing pieces, because doing that way means you ain't re-using that motor housing ever again

justin.mercier said:

Here's how someone jurryrigged a Master Gearmotor that I've got. It's on my project list to make it a whole lot nicer and machine an adapter plate so I can attach a C-face motor behind it with a VFD.View attachment 226915

Click to expand...

Now that's an interesting solution!

Steve

SteveM said:

Now that's an interesting solution!

Steve

Click to expand...

Somewhere on PM - if Photf**kit hasn't held it for ransom - there's one if not two others even closer to your need. Monarch forum.

The OEM 10EE DC motor's end-bell was gutted to provide the straight-in drive off a 3-Phase motor that replaced it to the splined inline input gearbox the DC motor had supported as well as driven.

Direct coupled. Inline. Mounting plate, yazz, one added bearing, maybe - but no belts or pulleys involved. Just LARGER than your one is, same type of need.

You can probably visualize that from what is in-hand even faster than to go find the example.

Or already have done.

Correct way to set up a pratt whitney milling machine:







Three phase motor, no jackshaft, simple fwd/rev speed control:



That speed ranger probably delivered about half its HP to the spindle.....

jim rozen said:

That speed ranger probably delivered about half its HP to the spindle.....

Click to expand...

Could was. One of the critical items of any conversion is to NOT get greedy and deliver so much torque as to trash the unit - or its splined shaft.

If not protected by setting VFD or DC Drive limits, either a 3-P or DC motor can put a hurt onto those parts.

BTW .. Lovely mill, Jim.

Way classier than a Burke # 4 workalike.
You oughta consider doing something in the way of fabbing up a nice base for it.

All that commercial bakery cookie-sheet and early Montgomery Wards garage door opener salvage under it just ain't "period correct" atall.