Gleason Automatic Bevel Gear Planer

kevin johnson · Nov 29, 2009

I have talked before about this machine here and there seemed to be some interest by a few individuals, so I shot some video yesterday. Serial # is 6188 and it is a 24" machine. I know that Mr John Oder and others can date this machine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul9wCexWlXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVjrr5RZoRs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvBK6l5hU1s

johnoder · Nov 29, 2009

Thanks KJ

6188 predates 1926

Is the tool lifter only in action on the more delicate first stocking tool?

John Oder

Mike C. · Nov 29, 2009

And here's the latest version! Found this on the sidebar. So THAT'S how they make hypoid pinions!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0whwtairKOI&feature=related

kevin johnson · Nov 29, 2009

johnoder said:
Is the tool lifter only in action on the more delicate first stocking tool?

John Oder

No John, It is a clapper box like on a shaper. It is in use on all tools. The original return for the clapper I was told was a rod. A spring does the job now.

bryan_machine · Nov 29, 2009

Isn't this technically a shaper? The cutting head moves, the work is mostly stationary (though it's being moved in parallel?) Is the combined movement why they called it a planer?

In any case, it would appear to be a very useful and desireable machine for the intended task - looks like a really efficient approach for the time.

shaperhaven · Nov 29, 2009

It does operate more like a shaper than a planer. It is a neat machine !!! I like it !!! Shaperhaven

johnoder · Nov 29, 2009

The main thing on at least some of the Gleason bevel gear machines is that you could point the "ram" travel of the "shaper" at the apex of the bevel gear pitch cone - making the teeth tapered as needed.

John Oder

Mike C. · Nov 29, 2009

Also (correct me here if I am wrong.. as if anybody here would hold back, hahaha), it uses a single point tool that follows a tooth template (profiling tracer like setup), thus generating a true tooth profile from end to end on the bevel gear. This is as opposed to using a shaper or horizontal mill with a form cutter, which gives a close approximation, but not a true conical bevel gear tooth form.

kevin johnson · Nov 30, 2009

You are correct Mike.
I made a fixture for my surface grinder to sharpen tools for it on. The great thing is that they are just hss blanks that I grind. With the Gleason bevel generators you have to buy the tooling for them. Roughers and finishers are used of the pitch you need to cut. The generators are much much faster however cutting on both sides of the tooth at the same time. They also take more time to set up.

A machinist who used to run my machine showed me an "inverted" bevel gear with it. I had to see his prototype. The teeth are smaller on the OD and get larger toward the center!

I have a catalog from 1908 and they are called them planers then. I tend to agree that they are more like shapers. Mine looks more modern than the 1908 catalog cut.

I have a letter from 1970 where the shop I bought it from tried to buy a parts book from Gleason. It was unavailable at that time.

shaperhaven · Nov 30, 2009

If the old timers called them planers then, thats what I will call it now. I have a lot of respect for the old timers and the way they did things. Shaperhaven

Mike C. · Nov 30, 2009

Thanks for posting that vid, too Kevin. I recut a couple of large bevel gears a few years back with a shaper, and discovered the existence of the Gleason machines, but couldn't figure for a long time how they worked. I found a few pics here and there, but yours was the first video that really brought it all together. Now I want to see one of those generators running!

kevin johnson · Nov 30, 2009

This is not a great video, but it is the best I could find.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSBASuuW6ns
This looks like a 12" Gleason generator.

I had a job of 8 miter gear of #3 dp a while back. They were for an out of state customer and farmed out to me. I ran 4 of them and had boo coo hours of machine time in them. It was running maybe 18 hours of cutting time with my setup. I do not have to watch them run. Just set up machine and oil and grind tools and let it cut.But this was dragging on.

I had been given the option of running them on a Gleason generator and decided that might be a good idea for the last 4.

I ended up having to rough them on my machine as the generator is only rated to 3 dp and these had a long face. The feed could not be slowed down enough to keep the initial chip size down, even when running a fast tool speed. Big blue chips bad. Any how after I roughed them and we finished all 4 of them in 1 10 hour day . It made a believer out of me that those suckers can cut gears on a multiple gear order. The outfit I do this for used to keep 1 generator setup to rough and 1 to finish.

My old planer is OK for a small order , but I am not going to do production on it!

Hey I am not a machinist anyway!!!!

Mike C. · Nov 30, 2009

Oh wow, OK, the generator show there is double ram shaper, lol. I also saw another one on the sidebar that use rotating cutters on a rotating head that worked on a rotating blank! Man, that stuff can get complicated.

I know what you mean about eating time. My two big bevel gears took about 40hrs each, half of which was actual cutting. Still beat the $1000 1 pop estimate I got from the local gear cutting shop. They were going to use a Gleason, but setup was the killer. Had they been the same tooth count, or had I needed more than one each, it would have been different, but basically, it was the setup costs that ran it up.

sjm512 · Nov 30, 2009

Kevin,

It looks to me like you need to convince Gleason of the full historic value of your machine. Then show them how magnanimus you're willing to be by trading it straight up for one of their new ones.

Scotty

kevin johnson · Nov 30, 2009

Scotty,
I t'aint smart enough to run a new un. And u no dat! :cheers:

Kevin

Mike C. · Nov 30, 2009

Here's the rotating cutter, on a rotating head, cutting on a rotating workpiece to form a straight tooth bevel gear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEvpy66AqWA&feature=related

Mike C. · Nov 30, 2009

This may be a better view of what's actually going on with the Gleason generator, too...

It's an Oerlikon, but you can see how it forms both sides of the teeth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adi0GgUc2Z4&feature=related

kevin johnson · Dec 1, 2009

I saw the Oerlikon also. It appears to be a two tool planer. The tools do look similar to Gleason generator tools

On the Gleason generator The gear and tools rotate at the same time on the finish cut. They call it a cradle roll motion I believe. It has been a while since I helped run those gears. One day does not make me an expert!
If I get the chance I will shoot some video of the Gleason generator running. Lots going on and it is interesting to watch.

GearGeek · Dec 1, 2009

We have Gleason generators where I work (both the two tool and rotating disk style). When I first saw those machines work I spent a lot of time just watching the motions they go through. They are very interesting machines.

~GearGeek

Gleason Automatic Bevel Gear Planer

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