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What lathe should I keep?

Michaeljp86

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Location
SW Michigan
So I came across a Pratt & Whitney lathe and now have 2 lathes but only have room for one. My lathe now is a hendey with 14" swing. I have 3 and 4 jaw chuck and it has a taper attachment. I dont know much about the Pratt & Whitney other then its a 16" swing. My Hendey seems to be under powered but maybe thats just caused by running it off a phase converter.

So if you had to pick one which would it be?

Pratt & Whitney lathe.jpglathe wheel.jpg
 
The advantages of having at least two lathes is so great I'd consider rethinking the notion that you can only have one. I mean that even if two large lathes could not fit in the area available I'd sell the one that is the least accurate and then buy a smaller second lathe.

If one has a much larger hole through the spindle that would be a big factor for me in my own decision.

One of the truths about an empty shop for most people is that given a little time it will fill up and the owner will regret making such a small shop, my shop looked like the inside of mammoth cave to me until a few years passed by.
I still often wonder why I didn't spend more time with someone from the county asking exactly how close to other buildings and property lines I could come with the walls.
But of course you may truly not have the option of making the area larger.
 
I have temporarily solved a similar problem by loaning one of my machines to a friend. I wouldn't do that for just anyone though.
 
Indeed keep them both, that Pratt and Whitney is a nice lathe, I have one but in too sad of shape (missing parts, ect..) and having multiple machines really is nice. If you must be rid of one then keep the one that is in the best shape, or the one that has the most tooling with it. The spindle nose on those early Pratt and Whitney machines is something of an odd affair, a combination of a threaded and a tapered nose which would be impossible to find chucks of faceplates for, those you must make your self and would be difficult so keep that in mind.
 
Motor sizes?
Spindle configurations?
Taper attachments?
Accuracy?
Condition?
Preference?

The question may just answer itself.
 
Keep one for rougher work, and the nicer one for more precise parts.

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Deal here is that there is nothing to gain or lose here in the quality of the machine, either way. Both Hendey and P&W built exceptional machines. If it was a choice of a off name, low quality general shop machine or one of these names, the decision would be far easier. These are pretty much equal machines out of the factory, though.

That leaves it to condition, accessories and tooling. If one has more bed wear or a load of spindle slop, it's the one to get rid of. One has a four jaw chuck. The other has a four jaw, a three jaw, collect chuck or closer, full set of collets, taper attach, steady and follow with it. Pretty easy decision there. Load of tool holders with one... look at all that stuff.

My preference, as said above, would be to decide which of these to keep, sell the other and buy a smaller bench lathe as a companion. Nothing better than a pair of lathes properly sized for different common work. You can make a firing pin for a .22 on a 16" P&W, but it's MUCH easier on a little SB bench lathe. Similarly, you can turn a short length of 4" shaft down to 2" to make some type of adapter on a SB bench lathe, but you'll spend all day where a big industrial lathe can do it in a couple of passes. Nothing better than boring out work in the big lathe and turning a bushing to repair a worn bore on the small lathe, then installing and boring the bushing to size without having to reset everything.
 
The advantages of having at least two lathes is so great I'd consider rethinking the notion that you can only have one. I mean that even if two large lathes could not fit in the area available I'd sell the one that is the least accurate and then buy a smaller second lathe.

If one has a much larger hole through the spindle that would be a big factor for me in my own decision.

I'll second this. I have 3 lathes shoehorned into my shop, and no plans to ditch any of them. One is a Hardinge HCT, which is really my primary for most things, but it has limitations. The second is a large machine, a 16 x 60 Rahn-Larmon, which is an awesomely powerful beast, but big lathes don't have much feel and limited RPM ranges, so not great for tiny stuff. The third is a little Atlas 618, mostly decorative and to teach my young boys on, but I do use it periodically.

The Hardinge almost always dawns an 8" 4 jaw, and I use it for precision work, like barrel threading & chambering. But with no tail stock and a very small work area, there are times I need the capacity and other capabilities of the big critter. And even with both of those, sometimes it's more convenient to throw a small part in the 3 jaw on the little Atlas machine.

If I were you, I'd probably keep the better of those two machines. Figure out which has the best balance between capability and precision, sell the other, and buy a smaller lathe for small work and secondary ops. Something like a 10" x 36" South Bend or similar medium duty critter that's just easier to use, and which has higher spindle speeds for small parts and nice finishes.

Oh, and get a rotary converter. Statics not only cause severe power loss, but can actually hurt motors over time. You can get a brand new, US made 5 HP RPC for under $400.
 
Oh, and get a rotary converter.

My brother has two lathes, 2HP and 6HP and a 2HP BP mill, plus a 1HP 6X18 surface grinder. He spent a lot of time researching how to go about deciding what he needed.
He got rid of his 5HP rotary converter and bought a 20 HP I think, even though he is the only person using his shop. If it were anyone else I'd wonder at that but he is pretty analytical, and wanted balanced three phase power that wouldn't limit him down the road. Part of the problem was specifically the Nardini 6HP two speed motor which is notorious for being finicky about balanced power.
But over all the thing he was doing was looking to the future, in case there were other expansions, not thinking only of today's needs I mean.
 
My brother has two lathes, 2HP and 6HP and a 2HP BP mill, plus a 1HP 6X18 surface grinder. He spent a lot of time researching how to go about deciding what he needed.
He got rid of his 5HP rotary converter and bought a 20 HP I think, even though he is the only person using his shop. If it were anyone else I'd wonder at that but he is pretty analytical, and wanted balanced three phase power that wouldn't limit him down the road. Part of the problem was specifically the Nardini 6HP two speed motor which is notorious for being finicky about balanced power.
But over all the thing he was doing was looking to the future, in case there were other expansions, not thinking only of today's needs I mean.

Yes, you always want to go over rated. A good rule of thumb is 50% over rated for light load machines (mills are considered light), 100% over rated for medium load (lathes) and 150% for heavy (compressors, pumps, etc). My Hardinge is 1 HP rated, my Lagun mill 3 HP. So I opted for a 5 HP converter. For a 6 HP lathe, I'd have also gone with a 15 or 20 HP rated RPC. But I put a single phase motor on my big lathe, so a 5HP converter is plenty for the two machines it's powering.
 
Choice of rotary converter depends totally on the hp and more importantly, the duty of the machinery running on the converter. My shop runs off a 5hp converter which has been balanced. I regularly run my 5hp L&S lathe on it, but that is a clutched spindle machine, so the only load on startup is the motor and input pulley. If you plan on running a three phase air compressor on a converter, you need to look at three times the compressor motor for your idler. Of course, a lot cheaper and better there to use a single phase compressor, though. Huge power bill running 40hp total to get a 10hp compressor running with a 30hp motor.
 
So here is my plan as of now.

The Hendey looks like it has has little use over the years so its in good shape. It has a like new 3 jaw, a 4 jaw, and a big and small face plate. Plus tooling, taper attachment, and steady rest.

But the main reason I bought it was because of the backhoe project. I spent a fortune on having hydraulic cylinders fixed and I could of done it for pennies on the dollar had I had a lathe.

Most of the hydraulic rods I have on equipment is 1.5" which seems to be a very common size. The Hendey can only take 1" or 1 1/6" maybe through the head stock.

The P&W lathe has a nice 3 jaw and thats it. No tool post or steady rest but its seems to be in a nice tight machine even though I have yet fire it up. What I really like is it has a lever to quickly pull the tool off the work when threading so you dont have to mess up any of your measurements for the next pass.

So that is really nice since the main reason for a lathe was threading. But what is a huge plus is it looks like the P&R can take 1 3/4" through the head stock. That would make turning 1 1/2 rod really easy.


So my plan as of now is to try and clean out my little garage here at home and squeeze it in here. Its a lice garage that was built by a guy who had a cabinet business. Its all drywall and insulated like a house. Buts its been neglected by past owners so Im trying to fix it up into a nice little workshop that will be heated.
 
Are you going to make the rods out of chrome plated 4142 or have you read about nitro100? It's that black cylinder rod that is supposed to work as well as hard chromed rod. They sell it induction hardened .050" deep too I think plus the nitrided surface is very hard.
Last time I looked for cylinder rod the vender was pushing that, and said the hard chromed rod was getting harder to find, though it may have been economically driven rather than scarcity, I don't know. I do seem to remember a scarcity of chrome rod for quite a while.
 
People need to get over the thru hole size on lathes and learn how to use their steady rest. Remember, for years lathes had solid spindles.....

Parts, I think your supplier was trying to snow you. There is no shortage of chrome rod. Think about how many pieces of equipment have chromed rods and how many thousands of tons of that material there must be on earth. And if you have ever had the pleasure of machining Thomson shafting you'd have told that salesman to gfh. It's nasty shit.
 
Oh I've machined even induction hardened chrome plated piston rod, and the Nitro100, and the main selling point is that it is about 1/2 or 1/3 the cost of hard chromed piston rod stock. I really don't do as much of that kind of work anymore so it's not something I'm current on.
As far as a large spindle hole we'll have to agree to disagree on that, many times I've had large sch 60 pipe sticking way out the left end of the lathe, and no way a steady rest would work as well. If you have a 20' BC lathe you can work on most of it but with a 3 1/8" hole through the headstock you only need a rotation stand off to the left, which takes up far less shop room the 99% of the time when that kind of work isn't being done, whereas a 20'BC lathe takes up a huge area of shop space 100% of the time whether long work is being done or not.
My Sculfort has a 3 1/8" spindle hole and the Victor 1440 HD has 2 1/2" passage through. It's very important to me. Plus I learned how to use a SR in high school in 1966, and I suspect most machinist have too.
With my experience I've long ago learned to value a lathe by two main factors besides accuracy, the spindle speed capability for small stuff and the spindle hole for larger long shafts.
 








 
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