Logan Shaper Internal Key

Here are a couple pics of an early Logan 7"
Shaper earning it's keep. Cutting 3/16" Internal
Key x 1-1/8" deep in a 5/8" diameter Blind Hole.
I made a solid block tool holder for rigidity and
removed the standard clapper. The block bolted on
using the original holes. Then Silver Soldered a
carbide blank into a slot cut in a 5/8" dia bar
that was turned down to 7/16" a ways back. After
grinding the the tool form using a surface grinder
then clamp the part, set the stroke, locate center
and dab on a bit of cutting oil. I had two parts
to do and they both came out very nice. I did
undercut the bottom of the hole so the tool did not
chip at the end of the stroke. I advanced the tool
about .001 per stroke and allowed it to make a few
free passes when needed.
Old School for sure but satisfaction was had and
a profit was made.
spaeth

Nice one, that's what I keep my old 8'' stroke Boxford shaper for, ......mind you it's been a good many moons since it moved it's ram in anger, ...but we all know the day I get rid, ....... a job for it will come right in the door.

I recently got a 12" Vernon shaper and I think I will make a tool block like you did. Cutting keyways is one of the things I look forward to being able to do with it. Nice job. Tom

Tom,
The reason I made the block for the little Logan was
because it has a bit of wiggle in the clapper. Not much
and for general shaper work the clapper works fine. These
keys were being cut with the cutter ground to width so I
liked the idea of the solid block. I think if I had taken a
bigger bite per pass the tool might drag too hard on the
return stroke and spoil the cutting edge. Now that I have
the rigid block and it easily changes back to the clapper
and tool post it increases my options. I would like to
adapt an indexing head to my machine for cutting splines.
That is a back burner project, but then so was the internal
key until the the job came along. My first job in the shop
was running the shaper. Actually two shapers, one was flat
belt driven and needed an application of belt dressing every
now and then to keep the ram moving. Back then decarb free
tool steel was high priced so everything came with the bark
on it. Shapers tool bits were cheaper than end mills and you
could square up stock while the saw was running and file the
burrs, and check the heat treat furnace or sweep the floor
or run the drill press all at one time. I think I made 1.25
an hour, but was learning the Trade that became a career that
I still enjoy.
Shape On
spaeth

I had a job come in the shop the other day, cut a 10MM internal key inside of a 4.15" long steel collar with about a 2" bore. Son of a gun I discovered I had no 10MM broach, had a full set including and below 8MM and two 12MM broaches, but no 10.
I had to make a poke bar, but made the back end to fit the clapper block where the tool post goes and clamped with a 3/4-14 nut. I had a square 3/8" broach so I broached it right near the end and put two 1/4-20 set screws in the sides just to hold the HSS tool bit from migrating up into the square hole.
The poke tool took many times as long to make as cutting the keyway, and now I have the tool for next time.

Its old school but very effective.

If you really want to improve the productivity and have the need to do so, machine a mounting slot and tapped holes to accept key seat cutters into your bar.

Shop I used to work at had a vertical shaper we did long internal keys with. Our dedicated key seat machine only had 9" of stroke.
When I started there they had always used rex with hand ground reliefs, works but can be a PITA.
I flipped the existing bar and machined the proper slot to except cutter from the key seat machine, they work much better than hand ground pieces of rex.

The only reason I did that was because I didn't have a broach, however, I can see how one might make a dedicate angle plate, maybe have a V for centering, and clamping fingers, and use half a broach inlet into a bar and set the shaper on slow slow. Then, depending on how much of the broach one used, two or three, maybe four strokes with down movement on the slide between them on the back stroke, Yes, very fast. The more teeth one has in contact the more stroke pressure would be needed, so maybe just 4 teeth from the old broach. The setup I just described would be hard to hit depth right though, maybe with a shaper with a clutch, stop, measure, set last pass,,

Nice to know there are more Shapers out there
getting real work done. I like that idea of
using a broken broach instead of grinding the
tool. It would have built in clearances and
should curl a nice chip. I would not try to
cut the key only using a couple passes on my
little shaper though. The arbor press usually
takes two or more passes adding a shim each time.
For most under 3/8" that would be hard to beat
if you have the right broach guide and shims.
Running the Shaper for Fun and Profit is
something the high tech guys miss out on.
spaeth

Yes, typically the broach has .0625" of total rise from one end to the other, on smaller sizes less. But having 5 or 7 teeth in the cut (Typical depending on designed chip storage in the gullet) would take a lot more pressure than smaller shapers want to push.

After all they mostly have only a small area clamp between the link at the top of the yoke and the ram. Many times I've had slippage right there.

It may be wiser to cut a broken broach into one tooth sections and use it like any standard cutter.

A while ago one of the seasoned posters here said something about reduced rake at the face because high rake tends to cause the cutter to dig in, well, not as much with a broach (Used normally) because there may be 5 to 7 teeth in the cut and that's a lot of pressure resisting "dig in".
He suggested somewhere between zero degrees face rake and somewhat more, but didn't give me a number like 3 degrees.

With a poke tool dig in is much more likely than with a normal tool because it's hanging out so far. That was why he suggested a scraping zero degree rake or a little more to be found by trial and error.

Here is the 3/8" square tool and holder I used for the 10MM keyway, it has maybe 1 degree positive angle and no chip breaker, just the flat face of the tool bit;


Here is a much shorter key holder using a piece of T cutoff blade 3/16" wide, this was simply pressed into a slot in the end and silver soldered in place, it worked very well too. You may be able to see that there is no positive rake, but the sides have positive relief too as the top of the cutoff blade did;



And another view of it, you can see the cross section of the cutoff blade;



BTW, please notice the clamping setscrew near the bottom of the clapper box side, there is an identical one on the other side. They go into a divot so arraigned that it is offset so that the setscrew actually tries to push the clapper back tighter into the box. This is specifically for this type of poke holder.

More photos;






But rather than use a screw clamped base that clamps like the lighthouse type post I'm thinking of some way to have an ER32 holder as close to the clapper a possible, then the various poke holders would just take a different collet, with the bar seated all the way to the bottom of course.

Partspro,
Looks like your Shaper is the Logan 8" which is not
only a wee bit bigger than mine but has a few nicer
features. The two tapped holes to lock the clapper is
a great idea. As is using the T parting blade and the
unique threaded bar replacing the tool post. Also I was
wondering if my machine could cut a 3/8" key without
chattering and you shaped the answer.
wdTom,
I saw a pic of the Vernon 12" and it looks to be a
nice hefty unit. Key cutting tooling will be an awesome
addition for your Shaper.
spaeth

your Shaper is the Logan 8" which is not
only a wee bit bigger than mine

Click to expand...

I didn't know they made more than one size. I've seen older ones with the nifty screw adjusting ram position, doubtless a good idea and I wonder why they didn't carry it on. No slippage when there is a screw behind the position.

I'm going to pick up a Logan AS7 this weekend. Anyone have any idea what it weighs? It has the original cast iron base and wrenches too. Lent this to a gunsmith about 10 years ago and all I remember it was heavy. I did't have room for it when it first came my way. Being 10 years older now I'm wondering how much heavier it got!

I am going to guess 400 to 500 lbs, I hauled my Logan 7“ home in my Yukon XL.

From Logan, Porter Cable & Brodhead-Garret Shaper

''The Logan/Porter Cable/Brodhead-Garret 8-inch shaper occupied a space 15" wide, 35" deep and 51" high - and weighed approximately 700 lbs with motor and stand..''

& pge #23 here http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2093/23003.pdf