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  1. #1
    Dennis Turk's Avatar
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    Default Barnes and Star peddle lathes

    Hi

    Thought I would share with you guys two lathes I picked up over the last year.

    The first one is a very early Star peddle lathes complete with all peddle parts and tooling. The lathe came to me for just the cost of freight from TX. I live in Oregon. Seams the owner was moving to Spain and could not take the lathe with him so needed to find a good home for it. He had seen some of my restorations on Tony's site and emailed me and asked if I wonted the lathe. Well that did not take long to make a decision on I can tell you that. The owner must have spent the better part of a week building crates and packaging the dismantled lathe. We moved it by Forward Air at a cost of around $350 bucks. Not a bad deal. The only thing I had to agree to was the lathe could not be broken up for resale and that I would restore it and display for others to see.

    The Barnes lathe I got this summer up in Washington state. I am now the third owner of this fine number 4 1/2. The original owner gave the lathe to the father of the fellow I got the lathe from. In the 51 years the father and his son never used the lathe just kept it covered in there nice dry wood shop. Cancer was forcing the liquidation of all the tools and toys this fellow had and he put the Barnes up on Craig's list in Seattle and one of the Dalton guys up there spotted it and called me. The listing came out on Friday I think and I was up there Saturday morning to pick up the lathe. I felt the asking price of $2000 for such a fine example of a Barnes was more than fair. The lathe came with all the peddle parts and seat. Also a full set of change gears, tool post, face plate, dog drive plate, the wood working rest, bowel making plate for the spindle as well as two three pound coffee cans full of old forged tool bits and another 20 pound box of misc cutters arbors and such. I also got the steady rest but no follower rest---bummer. The lathe is in just great shape with nothing broken or badly worn.

    Turk
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails star-lathe-10.jpg   star-lathe-11.jpg   star-lathe-4.jpg   barnes-4-1.2.jpg   barnes-peddle-lathe.jpg  


  2. #2
    garyphansen is offline Titanium
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    Turk: What is that steady rest looking thingy mounted where the tool holder should go on the Star lathe? Thanks for posting the photos. Gary P. Hansen

  3. #3
    Dennis Turk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyphansen View Post
    Turk: What is that steady rest looking thingy mounted where the tool holder should go on the Star lathe? Thanks for posting the photos. Gary P. Hansen
    The odd looking think on the tool post is actually a following steady. It has a cutting bit that is advanced buy the handle and adjustable fingers. Made for turning very thin long stock.

    Turk

  4. #4
    Ed Hobbs is offline Aluminum
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    Dennis,

    They are in beautiful condition. Is the SF a 9 or the 11? Do you think that is the original paint on the SF?

    I just sold a Barnes #5 and a 4 1/2 and have another 4 1/2 that I need to get some picutes of so I can post it for sale. Had to take it apart to move it and have not had time to get it back together.

    Did get some pictures of the 5 and will try and get them out here to share.

    In my opinion, SF made a more robust machine when compared to the Barnes in all areas including foot powered scroll saws. You don't see any where near as many SF machines as you see Barnes. SF got in the business well after Barnes so guess that had a lot to do with that.

    As you know, finding these complete is a very difficult. All you needed to do was to throw away the foot powered parts and add a motor and you had a good lathe. Nobody thought back then that anyone would still want them complete in the early 2000's.

    Just love these old foot powered machines!!

    Thanks Ed

  5. #5
    Dennis Turk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Hobbs View Post
    Dennis,


    As you know, finding these complete is a very difficult. All you needed to do was to throw away the foot powered parts and add a motor and you had a good lathe. Nobody thought back then that anyone would still want them complete in the early 2000's.

    Just love these old foot powered machines!!

    Thanks Ed


    Hi Ed

    I also have another 4 1/2. Its mostly complete but as usual its missing the peddle crank shaft sprocket and seat. It does have the flywheel. I think. Darn hating getting older I just don't remember everything like I use to. Then it maybe info overload to."-))) I also have a number five but its missing flywheel peddle and seat and as you say all that was discarded in favor of an old washing machine electric motor drive.

    Ed I also have parts to two other number 4 1/2 machines. I have two beds with head stock tail stock and carriages but no legs or anything ells. I may have some extra change gears and bits and pieces. If you need anything along these lines let me know as in both cases the parts lathes were given to me for transport cost.

    The Seneca Falls is a 9 inch and no the gray paint is not original. there is black japanning under the gray. It will be returned to a proper color of semi gloss black like all the other lathes that I have that were originally shipped with a japanned finish. I have just not gotten up enough nerve to try my hand at japanning. One problem is it takes a large oven to bake out the stuff. Small parts are not a problem but the bed flywheel legs and such need a large oven. You have to go all the way up to 350 to 400 degrees in the last of three bakings and I am just not ready to do that yet. I would like to do one some day though.

    My SF is much the same condition as Ray Ferguson's 12 inch peddle powered South Bend. I am sure Ray frequents this site so may hear from him.

    I feel really fortunate to have thee complete peddle lathes with the Barnes, Star and the Dalton.k Here is what I have of the number 5 Barnes.

    Turk
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails w-f-j-barnes-head-stock-view.jpg  

  6. #6
    IrbyJones's Avatar
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    Congrats, Dennis, on your new Barnes addition - that neat little variable speed drill press!

    Irby

  7. #7
    Dennis Turk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrbyJones View Post
    Congrats, Dennis, on your new Barnes addition - that neat little variable speed drill press!

    Irby
    Hi Irby

    Say is that actually a Barnes? I through bid out there and no one beat it. Now I have to figure how the guy is going to ship it without getting damaged. Anyone close to were the drill press is? Does anyone have any literature on this little gem. Should look good in my little museum along with all the other rusty iron."-))))) I bet the spindle drive member is layers of leather. I have seen one similar to this one and the spindle pulley for a lack of a better description was a stack of leather disc's sandwiched together.

    I need to put up some pictures of a lathe I got a year or so ago. I really think its a very early Putnam as it was found 15 miles from were the old Putnam factory was or still is I am not sure. I cant find any info on it another than its looks like the very early Putnam bench lathes. AS near as Tony and I can figure it is Putnam's very first lathe which started production in 1831 and ended some time before the Civil War. Anyone have any very early Putnam information?

    Turk.

  8. #8
    Dconway00's Avatar
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    Denny T.

    What drill press are we talking about? Where is it?

    Dennis C.

  9. #9
    IrbyJones's Avatar
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    Say is that actually a Barnes?
    Yep. If you blow up one of the eBay ad pictures you can read W F & J Barnes Co, Rockford Ill USA. You can even see the patent dates. You got a winner for your museum!

    Rob Lang pointed it out earlier
    W.F.& John Barnes drill press on ebay
    and I wondered why there was no chatter on it. I kept quiet because I lusted after it too.

    Irby

  10. #10
    Dennis Turk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrbyJones View Post
    Yep. If you blow up one of the eBay ad pictures you can read W F & J Barnes Co, Rockford Ill USA. You can even see the patent dates. You got a winner for your museum!

    Rob Lang pointed it out earlier
    W.F.& John Barnes drill press on ebay
    and I wondered why there was no chatter on it. I kept quiet because I lusted after it too.

    Irby
    Hi Irby

    I missed that heads up as I don't usually frequent the antique machine forum. I am usually on the SB site. Lately I have been looking more at what you guys are doing so maybe next time I will not be so slow."-))

    Owe I was going to tell you that this last summer when the wife and I traveled all the way to NY and back I picked up a flywheel that looks more like the original one that is missing on my Boyngton and Plumber shaper. Not sure yet that it will work but looks better than the one I have. Least it has the S shaped spokes.

    Thanks Irby

  11. #11
    timekiller's Avatar
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    Talking What you want to hear?

    Hello Dennis,
    It took me a while to figure out why my ear was burning, and behold you were spreading my name about.

    I have just four foot powered lathes operational: Barnes #4-1/2, and round belt #5, 11" SF, and the Shepard of Cincinnati, OH.

    Your Dalton is really nice. But have you forgotten to count the Drummond, and don't you have a Britannia also? I can understand you forgetting with all your "experience"

    I may have a W.F. & John Barnes Drill Catalog with your drill listed. Will have to refresh my memory.

    Ray

  12. #12
    Dennis Turk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timekiller View Post
    Hello Dennis,
    It took me a while to figure out why my ear was burning, and behold you were spreading my name about.

    I have just four foot powered lathes operational: Barnes #4-1/2, and round belt #5, 11" SF, and the Shepard of Cincinnati, OH.

    Your Dalton is really nice. But have you forgotten to count the Drummond, and don't you have a Britannia also? I can understand you forgetting with all your "experience"

    I may have a W.F. & John Barnes Drill Catalog with your drill listed. Will have to refresh my memory.

    Ray
    Hi Ray

    Now dont you mean SB not SF. Now who is forgeting things."-)))) And yes I did forget about the Drummond. Actually here in North America the peddle drummond and the Dalton peddle lathe are about the most rare of all the foot powered lathes. The ones I have are the only two know of. Sooooooooooooo far. No I dont have a Britania Ray that must be some other nice guy your thinking of.

    Turk
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails copy-drummond-takes-its-honered-place.jpg  

  13. #13
    timekiller's Avatar
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    Exclamation SB

    Dennis,
    I said operational, The SB needs power still. Here is a picture of my Senica Falls Lathe I have acquired a proper steady rest for it.

    I don't know how many Barnes lathes I have, but do know which ones I don't have.

    I wish you would share your secret of cleaning up those machines to make the bare metal look so good, like that chuck you pointed out in the Champion thread. I know you have said "oven cleaner and buffing". I can't imagine you working that hard buffing all that metal. Or you have some good buffing information.

    Ray

  14. #14
    stef.'s Avatar
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    Thumbs up SF lathe

    Dennis:

    Nice find on the SF lathe. I think I have its twin brother. I was wondering if you might have some insight if that particular lathe has a serial number hidden somewhere on it. Also, I might add that the lathe is a great user piece. It does very good work with good precision. Once again it is nice to find a complete lathe with foot power all in tact.

    Thanks, George







  15. #15
    Dennis Turk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stef. View Post
    Dennis:

    Nice find on the SF lathe. I think I have its twin brother. I was wondering if you might have some insight if that particular lathe has a serial number hidden somewhere on it. Also, I might add that the lathe is a great user piece. It does very good work with good precision. Once again it is nice to find a complete lathe with foot power all in tact.

    Thanks, George







    Thanks George

    Now you know that our SF lathes are very early ones. Unlike old Rays almost new one he has. Some people like old and some people like rust. Or Patina as a couple of my old cronies like to call it. You have a very nice lathe George. Can you tell what color it originally was? I am showing black under the gray paint that is on mine. I am guessing its Japanning. Some day Ray I may tell you my secrets for making Rustina look like fresh machined metal. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut not just yet."-))))

    Any of you guys ever see one of these lathes. This is a 7 inch Flather. Its semi dismantled in the picture but you can still get an idea of what it looks like. Check out the massive back gears for a little lathe. I do have all the parts to this lathe even a taper attachment. Interestingly it has a round taper bar rather than rectangular. The lathe also has a feed or thread kick out device on the lead screw. Not to unlike the one on my English Drummond lathe. Has the oddest cross side setup to work with the taper I have ever seen. This lathe is do into the Turk works resto shop this next year.

    Turk
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails flathers-7-inch-lathe-.jpg  

  16. #16
    timekiller's Avatar
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    Cool Dang Dennis, You're riding me hard today.

    Dang Dennis, You're riding me hard today. Again I was showing my complete SF lathe. I have two much older. The oldest doesn't even have a patent date cast on the bed. And considering that makes it late 1880's vintage it does need a bit of TLC to bring it back to it former glory.

    Dennis, ask George about his metal bed Barnes wood lathe. I have seen a catalog listing that lathe. George has a nice collection of lathes also.

    Remember Dennis, I need to refresh my memory on the Barnes drill.

    Ray

  17. #17
    Mike Powell's Avatar
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    Default I want one!

    I have to say that I now very much want a pedal/tredal lathe. Can you fellas help me condencse the information? Who made these? I have seen where parts are being recast for some, What make and models are repop parts available for. I think one restored would look super sharp in my colection of antiques

    Mike

  18. #18
    stef.'s Avatar
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    Default SF lathe

    Hello Dennis:

    First of all thank you for the kind words! Also, to Ray thanks for the kind words! Ray and I have exchanged photos and thoughts on these foot powered lathes in the past. As far as the finish, from what I can tell I would have to say it has to be original paint. The history I received with the lathe is that I am the third owner. I have owned this lathe for about 30 years. The person I purchased the lathe from said he owned it for 45 years. The family he bought the lathe from purchased it new and sat in a second floor storage room for most of its life being used lightly. Probably because of it being foot operated. I am quoting the second owner.

    Ray, Have you ever located the Barnes lathe with the third set of legs?

    To Mike, there is a book on foot powered tools by Keneth Cope with a wealth of information for what you need to know when researching or buying a foot powered lathe.

    Regards, George

  19. #19
    Ed Hobbs is offline Aluminum
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    Mike,

    Might be able to help you. Will send you a PM later today.

    Thanks Ed

  20. #20
    timekiller's Avatar
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    Default Three legged Barnes

    George,
    I communicated with David about that Barnes lathe. However it has line shaft legs. They have no bar for the flywheel mount, and the legs are mounted on the end of the bed, another sign it was designed as line shaft.

    I'm still searching for a picture of a foot powered pedal #13 or #5-1/2 with the 8' bed to get an accurate design of the pedal layout. I feel there is a support in the middle of the pedal crank. That 7/8" diameter crank is flimsy at that length.

    Ray

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