Hi,

I'd like to get some thoughts on early 1900's Old Iron. A buddy of mine is working on developing the Champlain Valley Transportation Museum in Plattsburgh, NY.

See: WWW.CVTMuseum.com

This area was rich in small gage railroads, locks, river and lake transportation and at one point even had a Strategic Air Command Air Force Base with a 3 mile long landing strip. The centerpiece of the museum is a fully restored Lozier, a high end luxury tourer actually built in the Lozier factory in Plattsburgh.

As part of the museum, the intent is to recreate, as accurately as possible, part of the original factory. The factory included a foundry and machining operations as they built their own motors (with ball bearing cranks!). We now have two period lathes (note the recent $10 lathe post) that we plan to drive with overhead drums and belts.

Now, here's my Brain Pickin' question and I realize this is extremely open ended. What types of machine tools and foundry equipment should we look for to complete a 1900/1910 factory of this type?

Any input (and donations?) would be appreciated! Like I said in my other post, "Are there any 110 year old machinists out there?"

Thanks,
John

You could do worse than to study the Armington & Sims machine shop and foundry at Greenfield Village, The Henry Ford, Dearborn, MI. It was constructed about 1929 for the Village as a circa 1900 general purpose shop, not a factory to build a specific product like an automobile. So there are no specialized machine tools. It is also very large and beyond your resources as far as exactly duplicating it. It is set up as a working shop and many of the machines are ready to use for restoration work at the museum. It is the best authentic late 19th/early 20th Century shop I have seen. A block or two away, the 1870's Thomas Edison machine shop is also fantastic. The machines are smaller and older than the A&S, but the feel of the place is about what you want for your own museum. The railroad roundhouse, with specialized railroad machine tools will interest you. In the main museum building is one of the unbelievably huge gas-steam engines that powered Ford's Highland Park Model T factory and a lot of other great engines and machine tools.

http://www.hfmgv.org/village/default.asp The web site is not great for seeing the exhibits, but it can get you in touch with a curator to advise you with your project.

Larry

Here is the rough an ready, and described as worn out, machinery that Harry A. Miller built Indy dominating race cars with for years and years. He moved this stuff several times around the Los Angeles area.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ersMonarch.jpg

Scan from the The Miller Dynasty , second edition, by Mark L. Dees

John

How about driving down to Watervliet NY _on a weekday_ and visiting the "1900 Machine Shop" exhibit at the Watervliet Arsenal Museum ??? They will even tell you where they got the belting for the WORKING overhead line shafts (Troy Belting in Troy, NY)

Overhead lineshafts are "dramatic" in appearance and may capture the attention of your patrons. (One of the things that "turned me on" to machining was visiting Thomas Edison's lineshaft-driven shop in West Orange, NJ when I was about 9 yrs old!)

Shapers are fun to watch.

JRR

If you want to re-create the working conditions of the period too, here is a description of conditions in the Overland crankshaft forging shop which should bring tears to the eyes of any modern OSHA Inspector. It is from a book published by Overland themselves in 1912 describing the building of the 1912 Overland car:

"If you are a lover of human interest stories, or incidents, do not overlook the opportunity of visiting a drop forging plant. Common belief is that the only hazardous occupation in connection with the automobile industry is the driving of a racing car, but without having any statistics to back up the statement, the assertion is ventured here that almost as large a percentage of fatalities occur in drop forging shops as in automobile races. It is a most hazardous occupation, and the men who follow it do not stay with it very long. In the first place, it requires men of giant strength and constitution. They are called upon to handle enormous weights under the most awkward conditions, and always in danger of being bruised or suffering broken bones should anything go wrong.

In addition to this, the operator of a drop forging hammer must be a man of keen eye, quick brain, and good judgement. Every once in a while one of these heavy hot forgings will stick to the hammer and go flying up into the air with the operator hanging on to it like grim death, tugging and pulling to disengage the hot metal from the hammer and get it back onto the die before the ponderous weight shall have descended again with its crushing force. In those moments the act must be quicker than the thought."

The book is 48 pages of text and small fuzzy publicity photos. There are maybe 8 or 10 pages which describe the forging and machining operations in the Overland works, which would have been much bigger than the Lozier factory, so probably would not be very helpful to your project. However if you think they would be useful I could e-mail the relevant pages to you. They average about 80 kilobytes each.

franco

Hi,

Franco,
Any help would be appreciated. Please e-mail away!

JRR,
Thanks for the Watervliet museum info. I didn't know that existed. My father was from the Oranges and I was told that he once worked in the Thomas Edison facility.

John,
Great photo. That's what we have in mind.

Larry,
Thanks for the tips. I need a vacation! That sounds good.

Please keep it coming guys!
John

You might also try the American Precision Museum in Windsor, VT.

http://www.americanprecision.org/

Nice place to visit, too, but they don't reopen until May.

Quote: "Franco,Any help would be appreciated. Please e-mail away!"

OK, but where to??

franco

Hi Racebrewer,

here's a link to a recreated workshop at a sewerage pumping station in England. there may be some ideas there: the planer in particular is good to watch.

http://www.claymills.org.uk/workshop/index.html

Good luck with the project
Keith

Hi,

Please send any relevant photos/sites/personal porn/e-mails to Racebrewer@aol.com

Thanks,
John

Old joke: Two drunks are in a bar chatting. One says to the other "Do you have any pictures of your wife naked?" "Good God, NO!" says the second guy. The first guy says "Would you like some?"

What do you guys think about this one for a museum display?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1920s-Ke...QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks,
John

I think, and this is strictly an opinion, that it isn't a good museum display because it is not 'as built'. The overarm is missing. The Bridgeport head is from an entirely different era. It's not an authenic unaltered artifact from the 1900/1910 Lozier era. You could do better.

Franco,

PM sent. Much appreciated.

John