brake drum repair
Can this be done?
The old drum is from a Hyster H60XL forklift.
I don't have the dimensions at this time but it is about 13" OD.
Someone tried to repair it and the repair has failed. I have not seen the drum in person only this photo.
Probably an unobtanium part therefore the attempt to repair.
Sorry I don't know what the repair ring was made from at this point. You can just see it on the left.
Obviously cast iron would be the best choice of material and once spot welded in place would probably do just fine. The low speed of a forklift
should be ok with such a repair?
Thoughts and suggestions welcome.
Don't equate 'low speed' with low-stress, nor less demanding safety margins.
Originally Posted by M. Moore
But it is probably not 'unobtanium' at all.
MOST drums for drum brakes used in MHE as well as everything else were bought-in from a rather small number of usually large OEM suppliers, not made in-house. Federal-Mogul and the other 'usual suspects' for drums, disks, flywheels and the like come to mind, and search engines will pick up the trail to catalogs that list multiple thousands of 'stock' items.
Might be too much to hope that it is a mate to common tractor, GMC or Ford truck part, for example, but that does happen, so worth checking. Knowing who made the AXLE they are mounted on and the wheels as well should narrow the search.
If you seriously cannot find a new one anywhere.How about heating the drum in an oven and chilling a repair ring. Then install it with lots of red loctite, some knurling on the ring and an interference fit would also help keep it in place.
Given the tendency of drum brakes to get a tad warm'ish and move about, I'd say clean metal-to-metal fit and a few soft iron rivets, meself...
Originally Posted by misterT
Otherwise, one may be building a fluidic clutch with rather unpredictable braking action..
IMHO this is a part that needs to be replaced with a new one, brakes on fork lift are too much of safty issue to go boging about a repair, not saying it can't be done and or insulting your abilities but I just wouldn't to take the risk. Just an example to follow:. The starter on our hyster went south, the OEM part was probably upwards of 500.00, but instead I went down the street to the local auto electrical establishment. He test the old one confirmed it bad and handed me an of the self unit for 145.00. put in and away we went. There is probably an item of the same pedigree for your lift, it will just take a little time on the omputer / phone, and you will be confident it will stop when asked.
The Model A Ford crowd regularly use a "backing ring" to extend life/augment braking on the Model A pressed steel drums.
While a Ford manufacturing expedient - the original pressed steel drums - especially when worn beyond their wear limit - tend to "fade" severely on a stop. To the point where one wonders if one has any brakes at all.
Most of the Model A parts houses now sell pre-manufactured "backing rings" to put over the brake drum. The added mass and rigidity both help to prevent fade and make for safer stops. IIRC, these backing rings used to be made routinely by afficionados from flywheel ring gears of Ford Pinto engines, but now are cast and machined custom for the application. Also (not having done this myself) the rings now come with specific instructions along the lines of previous posters where sandblasting the exterior of the pressed steel drum is preferred AND the backing rings are put in the wife's oven and heated to 500F or beyond so they expand and drop in place - and contract to a firm bond with the original drum.
Even so, the Model A Ford now has available cast iron replacement drums which are far preferable in performance - and not that much more money. The biggest problem with these is installation on existing hubs as the Model A wheel studs are "swaged" to attach the cast iron drums to the hubs - and some have difficulties with the machining before and after installation of the cast iron drum (these need to be machine "turned" to center after installation.)
Hope this helps.
"Rebuild it forever" and "Never buy anything" are my middle names, but there are several problems with sleeving a brake drum.
One is heat transfer. The sleeve will get hot, but heat conduction to the exterior surface of the drum will be impaired by the joint. I do not think slippage will be a problem, partly because the fit will get tighter as the inner sleeve gets hotter than the drum NO loctite needed or desired IMHO.
The worst potential problem is bursting or splitting of the drum because its wall is too thin to contain the combined hoop stress from the shoes plus the thermal expansion of the sleeve. If I HAD to do this, I would shrink a reinforcing hoop over the OD of the old drum. (Which perhaps there is no room for inside the wheel)
I'd hunt for a new drum
This is a clear case of more information needed. You offer no clue as to what is wrong with the brake drum. As a result some well meaning responders appear to be suggesting making an insert for the inside of the drum, while others envision a ring on the exterior (Pinto ring gear?). The drum looks fine from what I can see. The earlier repair piece offers little clue as to what it is supposed to do. Is the drum cracked, with the ring used to hold things together? Is the drum intact, but worn beyond the brake's adjustment capability, using the repair ring as stuffing to reduce the ID? You've got us guessing.
This clearly is NO ordinary automotive brake drum. The combination of a very large hub and bearings, coupled to a very small brake contact area, are a sure giveaway that the drum is something special for high loads and very low speeds (hey, that sounds like a forklift!) What i would do is to start searching forklift junkyards for another drum. The chances of finding a good one may be slim, but it's your best shot. Even a bad drum might be of some value. Study the drum and the actual size of the brake. You might be able to remachine a scrap drum to remove the actual drum part from the hub, and then add a loose-fit automotive drum to replace the drum. I would NOT try this if you only have one drum, unless the drum is truly destroyed and you have nothing to lose.
Other options might be considered if we find out what is wrong with the drum.
With an off-the-shelf price of US$ 595, clearly not. But that was one Google hit.
Originally Posted by sa100
There is usually competition, and recycled or rebuilt might be just fine at a much better price.
Hyster DID build more than one of those forklifts, after all..
A close look at the picture shows that the "repair" was bodged from the start. There were 2 pieces used as a "liner" for lack of a better word and one of them has come out. It is partially visible to the left. The area of the drum where it was shows very spotty contact. Possibly the drum was not even machined before it was put in. The drum looks pretty thick. Maybe it was done because the brake was out of travel and not so thin at all? I would think that if there is plenty of meat left in the drum then machine it round (100% cleanup would not be necessary) and shrink in a 1 piece cast iron liner. Keep that forklift off the interstate. At typical forklift speeds and usage I think it would work.
I'm not the expert on Hyster, but there is a possibility that one of the differences between an H60 and an H60 XL is wider brake shoes and linings. If so, that could even have been a factory-kludge, not a field repair.
Originally Posted by tdmidget
Might work 'well enough' with the other side drum reduced to the same swept area so she doesn't swerve, appropriate new shoes and linings fitted.
Higher wear equates to shorter lining service-life if pushed, ELSE not even that.
More stress on a FL brake than the average econo-box auto, but still far less than an over-the-road K-whopper or such, so there should be adeqaute warning as the brakes wear..
Adding: And BTW, lots of 'make do' stuff might be OK for the small one-man shop with low useage and ability to take time to compensate for marginal equipment.
But for a full-time industrial environment? Or anywhere else with 'the usual' liability and risk?
Order a replacement drum. $595 or best better price one can get. Cheaper in the end.
A lot of opinions but not a lot of backup to support them. Just remember, "one aw shit wipes out a thousand ata boys"
Thanks for all the info so far.
Sorry about the lack of info. I just bought the lift and it will be delivered next wednesday.
It will be very low usage, once or twice a week for 10 minutes to 45 minutes max. Occassionally I need to use the lift for a couple of hours.
This drum is from the passenger side (?) and the driver side brake is working, doing all the work actually.
The insert was machined the same as the existing drum lining size. I suspect that at one time the brakes failed badly on that side and damaged the outer edge of the drum, thus the repair.
Mostly my question about a repair was related to the use of different materials side by side, taking the wear differently? Heating and cooling differently? My guess is that it would be fine for the low usage that I require.
I too am in the rebuild it forever and never buy anything camp! However if a decent drum comes along at a reasonable price then I will replace the drum. I did get a significant discount after pointing out to the seller the problem with the brakes. He investigated and sent me these photo's. All in a very good guy to deal with and he was going to do the repair and sell at the original price, however I do like a challenge and we agreed on a lower price.
Everything else about the lift is in very good condition.
Last edited by M. Moore; 06-03-2012 at 12:53 AM.
Here is a link to a drum on Ebay.
Looks the same but how do I know that it isn't worn out? It seems like a reasonable price, but the shipping might be a killer!
I find it hard to believe that the drum is not obtainable, there are thousands of Hysters out there and lots of fork truck wreckers, you just have not exhausted the search yet. There is a chance that the local dealer can't find a new one, but used will work, get on line and shop around.
My first assumption about being unobtainable was based on pure skepticism. A google search has turned up two at least and so it appears that I should have some success in finding a used drum. I just thought that unlike cars there are no real scrap yards for forklifts... (in Canada anyway) and parts would be hard to find for an older machine.
Does anyone know if Hyster still uses the drum dry brake setup still? Most have switched to a wet brake style, no?
The good part is that there are a lot of Hysters out there, my old machine was a TCM and there are not too many of those around. Very good machine though, the tranny is the best one I have ever used. Still shifts almost instantly from forward to back after some fifty years of abuse. I have only topped up the fluid level twice in 14 years. The hydraulics are still strong after having an oil water mix for many years. It's time to go back to the smelter though as the mast is just completely worn out and is now very dangerous.
Back to the Hyster, I am looking forward to having a new machine with sideshift!! Yeah!
The seller say's it's a new part. The machining of the inside of the drum, not the brake surface, looks like that to me. Never used.
He says make an offer.
Find out the shipping from him and come to a price both of you can agree on.
Or tack weld that ring back in the old drum and take a clean up cut.
Arc the shoes to fit if they are not getting 50% contact.
Thanks for your input. I had not noticed that they were listed as new. ( I assumed that they were used...)
The price seems very reasonable to me and they have two available.
What is the normal method for fitting the shoes if you don't have good contact?
When drum brakes were more common. the brake drum lathes had an attachement that could recontour the linning to the radius of the freshly cut drums. This way an oversized drum with standard lining could be matched to get good contact right from the start. Before this advancement, careful driving was necessary until the lining fit the drum and full braking was possible. Also frequent brake adjustments until the linning seated.
Now I do it on a disc sander with the disc 90* to the platten. Check where the high spots are by eye how the lining fits the drum. Remove material gently to bring the contact most of the way along the lining. When done, it don't need perfect, but, you'll be a lot closer than not doing this. Put a taper on the lead-in and tail off ends to help the linning from having stress there and causing chipping of the ends.
It will finish seating when you drive.
If these are Bendix style, assembly and adjustment is easy as everything kinda floats around.
If anchor pin style the initial set up adjustment is a little more complicated, but very intuitive for machine orientated people.
Let us know how you're doing with this.
Thanks for the info on arcing the linings. I have several disc sanders and matching curves should be no problem for me.
That is how I would choose to do it but the extra info from experience is really helpful.
I just received the lift today and I won't have time to tear into it until the weekend.