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Thread: FS Gould and Eberhardt 14" plain tool room universal shaper

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    gbent's Avatar
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    Default FS Gould and Eberhardt 14" plain tool room universal shaper

    I will sell my Gould and Eberhardt 14" plain tool room universal shaper. The machine is in very good condition. I am including the toolholders I have and 4 keyway bars as well. It also includes the wrenches, although the vise handle is not original. It is powered by a 3 hp 3 phase motor configured for 240V. This machine has a manual clutch which is super smooth for stroking the ram to dial in workpieces or vise tilt. It has rapid traverse on the cross feed. This machine has an oil pump for pressure lubrication. I believe the weight is around 4,000# and I will load with a forklift. I would like $1,100.

    shaper-front-left.jpg shaper-front-right.jpg shaper-name-plate.jpg shaper-serial-number.jpg shaper-tools.jpg

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    14" PLAIN
    TOOL ROOM
    UNIVERSAL

    Just when I thought that I knew that PLAIN meant a shaper was NOT universal and that UNIVERSAL was not a plain, along comes, (well, a while ago) G & E with both descriptions cast together on an iron door.

    ...so what exactly is a PLAIN shaper and of course, what is a UNIVERSAL*? Clearly, at least to a pattern maker at G & E, they can peacefully coexist and are not mutually exclusive........
    *I was certain that UNIVERSAL meant that one of the surfaces on which a part could be locked down, was rotatable for some degrees of arc, in 2 different planes at the same time.....right?

    What part of this shaper then qualifies it as plain, or did the foundry just screw up and not "fettle-off" one or other of the words on the "one-fit's-all" door casting?

    Bob
    Last edited by Robert Campbell Jr.; 01-16-2013 at 12:21 PM.
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    I was thunder struck too. Maybe G&E was having fun that day in the pattern shop, or maybe the lack of front support makes it more "plain"? Gbent, is the old Gemco vise you picked up some time back on another of your shapers?
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    Solving the mystery of why G&E labelled a shaper as "plain" and "universal" at the same time should be fun.

    I'm going to two HYPOTHESES
    1) That there is something about the ram that G&E considered to be "plain". What optional "degrees of freedom" could apply to a shaper ram?
    2) That "plain" in this G&E context means the opposite of "heavy duty"

    Old G&E catalogs will be the only way of learning how G&E defined "plain" in that period.

    BTW: NICE shaper, easily worth the asking price with that tooling.

    John Ruth

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    gbent's Avatar
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    I have the original parts list book for this machine. While not tremendously helpful, it seems the difference between tool room shapers and industrial shapers is this note from sheet B4: "On tool room shapers 24 and 52 are integral, and 31, 70, and 71 are not furnished", with 24 being the carriage and 52 the table. 31, 70, and 71 are a pin and screws for attaching the carriage and table. The next note is "On plain tool room shapers parts 54 to 61A are not furnished. This parts group (54 to 61A) is the (front table) support and associated details. The universal table is on a page all of its own, also with the same note stating the (front table) support is not supplied on plain tool room shapers.

    In the case of Gould and Eberhardt universal obviously applied to the rotating table and quadrant tilting vise. While my parts list doesn't reference, I wonder if the plain tool room is as opposed to a heavy duty (or possibly unlabled) tool room shaper that has the front support. On my shaper, the machine base is about 6" to short to allow machining for a front support.

    John, the vise is still in storage next to the Rockford planer where I had hopes of using it. My ship bringing my larger shop space seems to have temporarily ran aground due to low water levels.

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    svs
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    Default FS Gould and Eberhardt 14" plain tool room universal shaper

    Glad I'm not only guy messed with by plain/universal/tool room.

    I shouldn't be interested but have to ask-where in Kansas are you at Gbent.

    Scott

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    rmw
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    Ditto on the plain universal in the same sentence confusion. I have a G & E 16" that looks just like that, but mine is a "universal toolroom" , and it does have the front table support. That's a good looking shaper.
    Greg

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    svs
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    I have NO will power....going to pick this shaper up in about 10 days.

    I have a transport plan for the estimated 4,000lb weight, but would feel better and/or change plans if anybody has a verifiable number.

    Thanks,
    Scott
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    svs
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    Google informs me of a 16" universal with vise at about 4,400.

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    cretedog is offline Cast Iron
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    "I have NO will power...."

    I've experienced that malady once or twice myself SVS.

    Looks like a nice shaper you'll be picking up!


    JM

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    When I traded off my 16" Universal Toolroom (with front support) it was picked up by a Wright 1 1/2 ton chain fall that is tagged "tested to 5500". The chain fall did okay, but it was all the guy could do to yank on the hand chain, and he was no wimp.

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    jeff76 is offline Aluminum
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    Scott,
    I have this exact shaper also. While I can't give you an exact weight of it, I don't believe that it would be over the 4000# mark. I would have quessed it to be around 3200#-3500# if I were quessing. I can tell you that I hauled mine home in the bed of a Ford F250(about 25 miles). I used a 2 ton chain fall to unload and it didn't seem overloaded, although there was definately some weight there.

    Jeff

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    svs
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    You read my mind Jeff-I want to haul it on my 3/4 ton GMC.

    It has a flatbed so easy to load and tie down, and beats dragging the gooseneck 400 miles if not really needed. Running empty this trailer will damn near knock your breath out when you get synched just right on expansion joints.

    Hauled a buddies 10EE home from an auction with this pickup, and my toolbox and air compressor forced us to load it crossways over and maybe even a touch behind the rear axle. It handled fine....IIRC 10EE's are right at 3,500 so I think I'll be fine without the air compressor and getting the CG further forward.

    Famous last words.

    Scott

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    jeff76 is offline Aluminum
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    Scott,
    I think it'll be O.K. . I had a toolbox on my truck when I hauled mine, but if I was going very far with it, I would probably remove toolbox to get weight farther ahead. Good luck with the haul.

    Jeff

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    Michael Edwards's Avatar
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    Better late than never with info from a 1937 G & E catalog, which looks like your vintage.

    First the weight, 14" PLAIN TOOL ROOM UNIVERSAL 3200# The TOOL ROOM variety was much lighter than the industrial variety.

    As an example: 16" PLAIN TOOL ROOM UNIVERSAL also 3200# but the 16" PLAIN INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL was 4200#
    The tool room was not only lighter, it was faster and had finer feeds, using the same comparison of 16" as above: tool room 15-200 spm, industrial 11-140 spm
    And the feeds, tool room .005-.090" in 18 steps, industrial .010-.180" in 18 steps.

    On a G&E, "PLAIN" is best explained by this quote from the catalog " Table front support and guide are furnished with all machines excepting Plain Shapers"
    G&E had a huge selection of shapers, in 1937 you could get the following:
    TOOL ROOM PLAIN
    TOOL ROOM
    INDUSTRIAL PLAIN
    INDUSTRIAL
    If you wanted a shaper with a universal table, your choices were similar:
    TOOL ROOM UNIVERSAL PLAIN
    TOOL ROOM UNIVERSAL
    INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL PLAIN
    INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL

    I gets more convoluted when you see that there were a total of 12 differen 16" shapers. The lightest of these was the 16" TOOL ROOM PLAIN at 2950# and the heavies was the 16" INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL at 4350#

    In total, there were 28 different shapers available. In addition to that you could also get extras like a supplemental table top, tool lifter, table front had feed, moldmaker's vise, index centers and a jib crane.

    What the heck, just for kicks and grins, here were your shaper choices:

    14" TOOL ROOM PLAIN
    16" TOOL ROOM PLAIN
    16" TOOL ROOM
    16" INDUSTRIAL PLAIN
    16-20" INDUSTRIAL PLAIN
    16" INDUSTRIAL
    16-20" INDUSTRIAL
    20" INDUSTRIAL
    20-24" INDUSTRIAL
    24" INDUSTRIAL
    28" INDUSTRIAL
    32" INDUSTRIAL
    32" INDUSTRIAL HEAVY
    36" INDUSTRIAL

    14" TOOL ROOM UNIVERSAL PLAIN
    16" TOOL ROOM UNIVERSAL PLAIN
    16" TOOL ROOM UNIVERSAL
    16" INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL PLAIN
    16-20" INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL PLAIN
    16" INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL
    16-20" INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL
    20" INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL
    20-24" INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL
    24" INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL
    28" INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL
    32" INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL
    32" INDUSTRIAL HEAVY UNIVERSAL
    36" INDUSTRIAL UNIVERSAL

    And if your head is still attached, there was also another table option called a " TILTING WORK TABLE " This was a combination of the universal's semi-cylindrical seat on top of the table that allowed 15 degrees of adjustment in either direction, but was missing the other axis ( no trunnion on the cross slide )


    ME
    Last edited by Michael Edwards; 01-26-2013 at 07:26 PM. Reason: typo
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    svs
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    Jeez Michael...it took you almost three days to come up with that treasure trove of information......I'll try very hard to forgive you.

    Seriously, that is good information. Makes the Google results I've found coherent.

    Scott

  17. #17
    svs
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    Default FS Gould and Eberhardt 14" plain tool room universal shaper

    My reluctance to purchase the G&E was caused by a 24" standard Ohio. It needs major repair to the bull gear teeth and I knew I'd never deal with it if I had a running machine.

    Fortunately, a good friend agreed to adopt it, so I hauled it to its new home last week.
    imageuploadedbytapatalk1360226082.302242.jpg

    It weighed 3240lbs. as pictured.

    Went to Gbent's place Tuesday, received a very interesting Grand Tour and hauled the G&E home without incident. Did not weigh it but I would tend to believe the 3200 lb. catalog weight. It's really quite compact-I expected it to be bigger.

    imageuploadedbytapatalk1360224740.787704.jpgimageuploadedbytapatalk1360224805.255006.jpg

    It fit in quite well next to my Cincinnati 2MH. Same guy must have painted them.

    I've got it under power and cleaned up a bit, will try making chips tomorrow.

    It's really nice to buy a turn key machine for a change, thanks again Gbent.

    Scott

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    Ohio Mike is offline Stainless
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    Cool

    I agree, a very nice sized machine. Big enough to have balls but small enough not to eat up a acre of floor space.

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    Nice shaper guys! I'd sure like to find another one myself in the near future, preferably something in the 24"-36" range.

  20. #20
    svs
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    Default FS Gould and Eberhardt 14" plain tool room universal shaper

    Made some practice cuts yesterday....very sweet, no crash, but a lot to learn

    Finished a couple tooling carts today, got ready to paint and realized I have a rattle can rattler right here.

    imageuploadedbytapatalk1360391078.400468.jpg

    4" stroke @ 140SPM worked nicely.

    (Doesn't take much to entertain me I guess)

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