Gemo 16" Universal Shaper - Value ? (photos)

What is the max price the below shaper could sell for if proven to be in good condition, de-rusted and prettied up a bit ?





I don't need to hear how you got one for $50 at a farm auction, I need to hear what is the most you've seen similar sell for on eBay.

One and only GEMCO I ever saw in person or for sale went for scrap. It was not a universal, but a 16" HD. 5800lbs. They are a really nice machine with an oil pressure safety that prevents the clutch engaging if there is no oil pressure.

There's a Gemco 20 inch universal on eBay that looks a bit prettier for $7,500 with no "make an offer" button and just wondering if the seller is in La La Land or might someone eventually pay that much for one ? Seems to me the universal aspect should a huge difference in desirability.

Milacron, just sold an almost identical gemco a month ago--same model, an HD16, with universal table AND double screw vice and power down feed(two more rare extras) for $1000. it was dirty and needed more cleaning than yours does but overall in good condition. I also have a Mitts & Merrel 16 heavy duty model with chrome ways, universal table, double screw vise, power down feed and electric clutch in very nice shape I paid $1500 for it a year ago. (always wanted one like this). yup, he's way out in LALALand in my opinion.

I sold a 20" Gemco Universal with down feed for 300.00 10-12 years ago. Actually, it was a 300 LB? 12" vise, that I sold, with the shaper attached to it.
Harry

You know I am not sure why I am so fascinated by shapers. Maybe it is the slotting thing. I also have a 3CH Kearney Trecker that I would consider a slotting attachment for. Maybe not clear here, I am wanting to obtain a shaper. It seems the popular consensus is buy a shaper take the vise off and scrap the machine. Value wise, the ones I have been looking at have been dirty, neglected and obviously neglected. Something around scrap price or even haul it away for free, seems to be quite popular. I suppose that if there was a nice one with out too much wear cleaned and polished with in 100 mile I sure go look and dig into my pocket for about 1500.

Tim

Last year I paid $1000 for a 14" Steptoe, no down feed, no universal. OTOH it was bought new by a school then went into dry storage for 40 years. It looks mint, like it just came out of the box.......................Bob

No way! Milacron & shapers?!???
Don, mix up some full fat greek yogurt with some fruit and berries, take a load off, rest your mind a while and the feeling will pass. You'll be back to normal in no time.

What next, a kinder gentler "don"?

Where's the real Milacron and what did you do with him.

Seriously, my take is that there may well still be a few places, and a few processes that "need" a shaper, but are there any purchasing departments left that realize it? And is anyone willing to spend to train a shaper operator? If I really wanted to research it, I'd try to find out how many new shapers are imported into the US in a year (from China and India) and see who (if anyone) is buying them.

I do recall when i first started getting KBC maybe 30 yrs ago, they had shaper supplies, and maybe even a shaper or 2 as catalog items. Then they all disappeared until maybe 5 - 6 yrs ago, suddenly they had some shaper offerings again, very briefly, and gone again. So they must have thought they saw a market. And must have sold a few since none are in the catalog anymore.

smt

stephen thomas said:

No way! Milacron & shapers?!???
Don, mix up some full fat greek yogurt with some fruit and berries, take a load off, rest your mind a while and the feeling will pass. You'll be back to normal in no time.

What next, a kinder gentler "don"?

Where's the real Milacron and what did you do with him.

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Part of an auction "lot" from eons ago...the usual deal where it didn't seem worth enough to take the time to advertise it. But then I see Gemco "comps" advertised at $5K and $7.5K and I start to wonder if there is some Muscle Car thing going on with these

I bought my 16" universal in fantastic shape for $700 from a board member a few years ago. only thing missing is a few parts for the power downfeed.

No, the $7500 shaper guys are going to be sitting on them until they remove a zero from the back end of the price and displace the decimal to the left. One member was looking at a very modern Rockford universal hydraulic recently for $4500 and everybody deemed that an insane price. I don't think most folks view universal as more valuable than plain. Yes, you can get all kinds of angles, but it makes the machine far more flimsy and just that many more things to have to tram in, if it ever moves.

Shapers are limited pretty much to the hobby world now, so $1500 is about tops in my opinion. Actually, smaller and lighter ones are more valuable. The bigger they get, the more scrap price influences the total cost. You'll see a little 12" Sheldon go for $1000 and a 36" Cincy may never sell, simply because it weighs 12,000lbs and will cost $500 or more to get moved into place. It will also take up as much room as a good sized pickup in the shop, once clearance for ram travel and working room on all sides is counted.

Sell it, as is. You'll spend more cleaning and painting than you'll get selling it as a fully functional project.

That said, I'd love to find a big cheap shaper for our shop. Some little things we do would be very easy to set up and run on a shaper if I could find one close by for a few hundred bucks.

While I don't think shapers are completely limited to the hobby shop market, there definitely isn't much of a market for them. Hobby shops and old school repair shops would probably the most likely to be interested in it.

I think 12"-16" is probably a good size to sell. Big enough to do some real work, but not unmanageable weight wise. I am sure the market is very area specific too. There aren't many shapers out in this part of the country and there seems to be some interest in them. A guy in Rapid City runs a used equipment sale barn and likes to get them in. They sell pretty well.

I bought my 16" G&E universal just outside of Denver CO for $1200 a couple of years ago. The guy was asking $4000 on e-bay. 2 e-mails later I was looking at it and we settled on $1200 without any drama. I have seen that used machine dealer in Rapid City get $1500 give or take for smaller machines.

My spitball estimate, if it was in this area, is that I bet you could get $1000 to $1500 for it without much trouble.

Hi, Don,

Its the 'proven to be in good condition' aspect of your question which becomes a bit of a challenge.

If I may hazard a guess, it would be that you could put more in the value of your time into getting it into 'proven good condition' than you could ever recover in selling the unit. Having the usual sort of 'low-wage workers' just 'pretty it up' could do more harm than good.

Since it appears to have been in storage long enough to get a bit of rust on the ways, 'proven good condition' would mean having it apart, de-rusting the ways, and inspecting the alignments on re-assembly. It could be pretty badly hurt by 'just getting it running'.

That one has the look of an early to mid 1950's machine, and is a known good make, so, for the right person, its well worth the amount of working time needed to restore it. (actually, thats a 'maybe'.......as the state of wear of the cross-rail would be an unknown til its cleaned up and properly inspected......from 'general appearances', tho, I'd call that one a 'good risk'.....unless it has damage not visible in the photo.)

Knowing provenance would help, possibly. If it was, for example, known to have come from the machine shop on board a Naval vessel, or had come from the toolroom dept of a plant, as was little used, that would help a prospective purchaser to think it might have been well cared for, and not used abusively.

Whatever its provenance, tho, it has to come apart for proper cleaning of the ways and oiling system before it is used.

Granted, this is only a guess, but I'd say that your best option is to offer it 'as is', to a machine hobbyist who doesn't have to value the time invested in having it down, and checking it out. That one is a desirable machine of its type, for the person who has the spare time to 'give it some love'......and thats quite a few hours of serious 'loving'...... : )

If I may offer a suggestion, it would be this........offer it in the 'antique machinery' section here, for 'best offer by 'X' date. Instead of doing 'sealed bid' by 'X' date, as in the DRMO sales, you could post 'best offer so far'.....and set a 'minimum bid'........if it was mine, and I knew the motor would run, and it passed a reasonable visual inspection of the gearing and general state of condition (no bad abuse marks), I'd try starting at $1000 'as is'.

If I was a potential purchaser, meaning that I had the need for that capability, and was willing to invest the many hours of time in having the machine down and going through it, I'd value it at that level.

cheers

Carla

I think that reality needs to set in here.

Most people do not know how to run a shaper and there are even fewer that have the experiance to train those who would like to know because they do not use them anymore. Heck alot if not most do not even know what a shaper is. Bridgeport mills took their place and cnc is taking the place of them all.

I gave 500.00 for a 20 inch gould and eberhardt several years ago and if I had not bought it it would have gone for scrap. Thease machines are 50 years old or more and have been used.

That gemco shaper that you have is one of the newer ones but it is something that is not used today. In most cases they are sought out by someone as a hobby. It is a rare thing to see one in a shop being used that is in the buisness of making money.

I have to admit that I like shapers, planers, and slotters, and would love to own at least one of each, even if their time has past.

When I had a bug to buy a shaper there was a post on here that made me slow down.
It said you can make anything except money with a shaper.

I bought a larger G&E without the universal table a few years ago in lesser condition for about $500.
I would have paid somewhat more four your machine at the time.
This is a more modern machine and the universal table is more appealing to me.


For the machine to appeal to a small shop/ hobby a few things adjust the value.
1) 240 V power is a plus for anyone useing a phase converter or VFD to drive the 3 phase motor. 440V 2 speed motors can be a deal breaker.
2) Loading - this a significant part of the cost of obtaining a machine like this. If you can load it onto a trailer your market expands.
3) Missing parts - I dont see handles for the vise or adjustment cranks, and only one tool holder. Sure the machine is mostly there, but its not that valuable so the small stuff adds up to a considerable fraction of the units value.
Buying new ones is a cost the buyer has to factor in.
4) No hidden dammage. Shapers are known to crash and dammage their heads. This often does not show up in photos, also pull the cover and check the condition of the bull gear and slider crank system. No point even listing it if those are cracked or brazed up.

I dont know your local market, but its not economical to ship a unit like this accross the country.
I think the $1000 to $1500 are in the ball park, if its 240V, you load, and find the missing handles.
If the motor is 440V only and you wont load it or look for the missing parts, cut the price in half.
Major dammage - well assume scrap weight or less.

Scraping it out requires you to drain the oil and take it somewhere.





Its your toy, so you can ask what every you want for it.

Mike C. said:

One member was looking at a very modern Rockford universal hydraulic recently for $4500 and everybody deemed that an insane price.

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Anyone who would even consider a shaper for $4500 should have their head examined, wonder who that could be...
It was worth 450, if I was feeling generous.

I'm still looking for one, I would pay only 15-20 cents a pound though.

Sold my 16" Steptoe last month for $700. Was listed for sale here and on Craigslist for almost a year.

When I had a bug to buy a shaper there was a post on here that made me slow down.
It said you can make anything except money with a shaper.

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That is trite and may be true for production. I periodically make money with my 16" Rockford. Beyond that, it allows me to do processes that would not be practical by other methods except maybe plunge and/or wire edm. So yeah, if you do production or have enough development work to have WEDM, a shaper is an impractical lump.

It is also faster and more cost effective for surfacing large areas, than putting them on the turret mill. So if you have to do a lot of that, or surface weldments, it is going to make or save you money. One problem with shapers is people don't tool them up, and don't really know how to use them. So of course they are unproductive.

Nevertheless, only you can decide if it is worthwhile in the long run (enough "shaper work") to justify some tooling and climbing the learning curve. Or worth the real estate.

Billygoat- It looks like a very nice conversion from a lineshaft origins, but you got a heck of a good price for that shaper. No pressure lube, no outboard support. Does it even have a clutch?

The problem with shapers that lack outboard support is that as the table settles (it starts on day one) there is no way to tram them back to level other than taking a cut off the surface. Which gradually gets thin and slanty Tee slots. (Universals without outboard support can be trammed, but they are hard on the aprons.)

BTW, not trying to run the machine down, it looks nice & is a good size. But in the economics of shapers that we are discussing, that configuration is near the bottom of the barrel. AT $700 it almost makes Milacron's look worth several multiples of that.

smt

"It said you can make anything except money with a shaper."

That was said to me by the guy who gave me the Steptoe-Western. Thing about that comment is it is multi-facted. As in you cannot make money with a shaper (except in very special situations), but also that you can make positively ANYTHING with it. It can be used as a lathe to turn round objects (rotary table mounted vertically on the slide), it can bore holes (slotting bar inserted through a hole and rotated around in a circle), cut half rounds in both directions, angles, dovetails, keyways, internal squares, hex, or any other shape. Shaper is one of those things limited only by your imagination and creativity. No way it will do any of these jobs as well as a purpose built device (lathe, boring mill, etc..), and it is far slower doing them, thus you can't make money with it in a regular shop on a daily basis.